Lively discussions on the graphic arts and publishing — in print or on the web

dthomsen8 · 02-10-2006, 04:17 PM

Is XHTML really a standard? Of course, it is a formal standard, but is anyone paying attention?

My informal survey of large web sites indicates that the vast majority are not using XHTML.

The following web sites have either HTML 4x or no standard at all:

www.microsoft.com
www.adobe.com
www.usps.gov
www.harvard.edu
www.firefox.com
www.icann.org
www.networksolutions.com
www.parliament.uk
www.phila.gov
www.gm.com
www.un.org
www.google.com

The following web sites have XHTML standards, as shown:

www.ebay.com
<html xmlns:IE="#default"><head>

www.yahoo.com has:
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

www.macromedia.com has:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> at

www.senate.gov has:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">

www.w3c.org has:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

http://www.desktoppublishingforum.com/bb/ has:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"

I had to work fairly hard to find that many XHTML web sites. So, is it really a standard?

annc · 02-11-2006, 12:41 AM

All the sites I'm responsible for are XHTML 1.0 strict.

dacoyle · 02-11-2006, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dthomsen8

I had to work fairly hard to find that many XHTML web sites. So, is it really a standard?

XHTML is a standard and is more than a few years old, but browsers and the public were much slower to catch up with the latest standards. We only started using XHTML at my work place about a year ago when our statistics showed almost no version 3 browsers and a very small percentage of version 4.

Once our boss realized that folks were used to sites like amazon.com not looking "right" to them, it was OK to start following current standards. Trouble is, folks that care about standards and validation are rare. Most of us are here in this forum. ;->

dthomsen8 · 02-11-2006, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacoyle

Once our boss realized that folks were used to sites like amazon.com not looking "right" to them, it was OK to start following current standards. Trouble is, folks that care about standards and validation are rare. Most of us are here in this forum. ;->

Perhaps the sites in your department are XHTML, but there are plenty of federal government sites which are not.

Why don't really big, really rich companies insist on having standards? Plenty of them have no DOCTYPE or the equivalent at all. Most of those who do have a standard are back on HTML 4.01 or earlier.

Perhaps we can let GM or the USPS slide, but what about Microsoft, or Adobe? Maybe we should start writing to Webmasters at such sites (when we can find them) and ask them about standards?

Kelvyn · 02-11-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dthomsen8

but what about Microsoft, or Adobe? Maybe we should start writing to Webmasters at such sites (when we can find them) and ask them about standards?

But if Microsoft used standard XHTML strict on their site it probably wouldn't work with Internet Explorer....

Michael Rowley · 02-11-2006, 02:41 PM

Kelvyn:

'But if Microsoft used standard XHTML strict on their site it probably wouldn't work with Internet Explorer'

Microsoft's 'site' is on a rather large scale, and parts are several years old. The scale of Microsoft's site and the sites of several others are more than a little different from the sites designed by an individual, and the latter probably should comply the latest standards.

Kelvyn · 02-13-2006, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Rowley

Microsoft's 'site' is on a rather large scale, and parts are several years old.

It is a very big site and will undoubtedly cost a lot to update. There are problems, however, with even the newest areas of the MS site. Attached is a screen shot of the IE7(beta2) view of a MS page promoting IE7..... Not a CSS error, but a good old JS error, which has been causing much myrth in certain webmaster forums.

dthomsen8 · 02-13-2006, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvyn

Not a CSS error, but a good old JS error, which has been causing much myrth in certain webmaster forums.

So Uncle Bill and his elves sometimes make mistakes?

Who would have guessed?

Michael Rowley · 02-13-2006, 10:20 AM

Kelvyn

'view of a MS page promoting IE7'

I'm surprised Microsoft should be promoting a product that hasn't been released yet.

Kelvyn · 02-13-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Rowley

I'm surprised Microsoft should be promoting a product that hasn't been released yet.

This is the second beta version of IE7 to go on public release. They are attracting publicity for the product as well as relying on feedback from those who test it on a variety of sites, and to aid web developers in understanding potential problems once it is in final release version.

BTW, anyone thinking of installing it should be careful. Although it is pretty stable it does overwrite previous IE installations.

02-10-2006, 04:17 PM	#1
dthomsen8 Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA 19130 Posts: 2,083	Is XHTML really a standard? Is XHTML really a standard? Of course, it is a formal standard, but is anyone paying attention? My informal survey of large web sites indicates that the vast majority are not using XHTML. The following web sites have either HTML 4x or no standard at all: www.microsoft.com www.adobe.com www.usps.gov www.harvard.edu www.firefox.com www.icann.org www.networksolutions.com www.parliament.uk www.phila.gov www.gm.com www.un.org www.google.com The following web sites have XHTML standards, as shown: www.ebay.com <html xmlns:IE="#default"><head> www.yahoo.com has: <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> www.macromedia.com has: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> at www.senate.gov has: <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> www.w3c.org has: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> http://www.desktoppublishingforum.com/bb/ has: <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd" I had to work fairly hard to find that many XHTML web sites. So, is it really a standard?

02-11-2006, 12:41 AM	#2
annc Sysop Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Subtropical Queensland, Australia, between the mountains and the Coral Sea Posts: 3,480	All the sites I'm responsible for are XHTML 1.0 strict. __________________

02-11-2006, 02:41 PM	#6
Michael Rowley Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ipswich (the one in England) Posts: 5,078	Kelvyn: 'But if Microsoft used standard XHTML strict on their site it probably wouldn't work with Internet Explorer' Microsoft's 'site' is on a rather large scale, and parts are several years old. The scale of Microsoft's site and the sites of several others are more than a little different from the sites designed by an individual, and the latter probably should comply the latest standards. __________________ Michael

02-13-2006, 10:20 AM	#9
Michael Rowley Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ipswich (the one in England) Posts: 5,078	Kelvyn 'view of a MS page promoting IE7' I'm surprised Microsoft should be promoting a product that hasn't been released yet. __________________ Michael

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