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Old 04-24-2005, 01:31 AM   #1
annc
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Default What page dimensions will work?

A potential new client needs a rework of her brochure, which is basically a price list. It's currently self-designed as a trifold A4, using the three inside columns plus the inside fold from the back, with a stapled strip as a fifth column to hold the extra information she needs. I can design it to fit in four columns at A4, but it would look crowded.

She has worked out herself that it requires a larger sheet of paper, but I don't want to push it up to A3.

She wants to go to full colour, and it will need a bleed on each edge, with printing on both sides.

What is the most economical page measurement to use for a sheet-feed press? She'll be happy with a trimmed sheet size between A4 and A3.

Do I need to select a printer before I start doing the design on this, and set the page size to suit the particular press, paper supplier and folding machine?

   
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Old 04-24-2005, 08:02 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annc
What is the most economical page measurement to use for a sheet-feed press? She'll be happy with a trimmed sheet size between A4 and A3.

Do I need to select a printer before I start doing the design on this, and set the page size to suit the particular press, paper supplier and folding machine?
I would certainly talk to several printers to get an idea of their press capability.

You may well come away from the exercise with new ideas.
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Old 04-24-2005, 09:37 AM   #3
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This is tough for us in NA to answer. I have only the vaguest idea of what A4 and A5 sizes are. However, there are two considerations: paper size and press size. The press size will limit the size of the job, or the ability to print 2 or more up (which will only really be a concern if the press runs are hight). The paper size determines how much stock will be wasted with various sizes.

Thus my advice also is to talk to the printer(s) who will be quoting on the job and find out what sizes they recommend.

Don McCahill
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Old 04-24-2005, 09:50 AM   #4
don Arnoldy
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Ann-

Quote:
Originally Posted by annc
What is the most economical page measurement to use for a sheet-feed press? She'll be happy with a trimmed sheet size between A4 and A3.
You didn't mention what quantity of these you'd be printing. 1k, 10k and 100k. Also, although you said "color," you didn't say wether you meant 2-, 3-, or 4-color. Both of these things affect which press is appropriate for this job, and thus which size of paper is appropriate.

If you're looking at 1 - 10K of a 2-color job, then you're looking at running it on a small press, and thus constrained to using either A3 or A4 paper. If you're looking at a 10 - 100k of a 3- or 4-color job, then you'd use a bigger press, and print multiple copies on A2 or A1 paper.

If you are running on a press that can print no-larger-than-A3 paper, and you want the final trim size to be something-bigger-than-A4, there is no way to get more than 1-out. This means that there may be a good deal of waste. The trick then becomes how to take advantage of that waste.

You *could* create a 210 x 374, 4-panel brochure that would gate-fold to the same final size as the current brochure. Then (depending on the stock you choose) have room to squeeze out some "free" business cards, bookmarks, reply cards, or note pads around the edge.

I don't know how well odd-sized brochures are tolerated in your area--here, there are two "common" sizes, and lots of examples uncommonly-sized brochures. Do these need to fit either into a rack with other brochures or a standard business envelope? If not, you've got more latitude in sizing.

If the usage of the brochure is tolerant of size-variation, and you are using a bigger press, then you have more opportunity to reduce paper waste by changing the size of the piece. I don't have a metric imposititon table handy, so I can't give you a quick "ferinstance".

After making some preliminary decisions about paper, colors, and general size constraints, it would be an excellent idea to talk to some printers and get their input.

   
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Old 04-24-2005, 12:02 PM   #5
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I am not sure what paper sizes u have out in the "outback" if u take the traditional paper sizes in the UK to get 4 pages A4 out is SRA2 450 x 640 - the useable size is about 425 x 630 the next size is B2 520 x 720 Useable size about 490 x 710 this gives u 4 pages of oversize A4 (B4) - Because all of the world everyone prints on Heidelbergs or Komori's ( the rest follow ) printers usually have presses to take either 26" or 28"(740) or 40" (1020) wide paper - I think its alway best to talk to your printer
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Old 04-24-2005, 12:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djb
I would certainly talk to several printers to get an idea of their press capability.

You may well come away from the exercise with new ideas.
Thanks. I'll do that tomorrow. It's a public holiday here today (Anzac Day).

   
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Old 04-24-2005, 12:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donmcc
This is tough for us in NA to answer. I have only the vaguest idea of what A4 and A5 sizes are. However, there are two considerations: paper size and press size. The press size will limit the size of the job, or the ability to print 2 or more up (which will only really be a concern if the press runs are hight). The paper size determines how much stock will be wasted with various sizes.

Thus my advice also is to talk to the printer(s) who will be quoting on the job and find out what sizes they recommend.

Don McCahill
Thanks, Don.

The print run will probably be around 2000, and I'll be getting quotes from a couple of printers in Brisbane who run 5/6 colour Heidelbergs, as well as a couple of local printers who run smaller machines. All will be able to quote easily on A4 or A3 with full bleed, but I was sort of hoping to get some ideas for something between A4 and A3 to make the design a bit easier.

   
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Old 04-24-2005, 12:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don Arnoldy
You didn't mention what quantity of these you'd be printing. 1k, 10k and 100k. Also, although you said "color," you didn't say wether you meant 2-, 3-, or 4-color. Both of these things affect which press is appropriate for this job, and thus which size of paper is appropriate.
Sorry, Don, I forgot you people use different terms. Here, 'full colour' means 4, 5 or 6, depending on the press. Most of my clients are very cost-conscious, so I stick to 4-colour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don Arnoldy
If you're looking at 1 - 10K of a 2-color job, then you're looking at running it on a small press, and thus constrained to using either A3 or A4 paper. If you're looking at a 10 - 100k of a 3- or 4-color job, then you'd use a bigger press, and print multiple copies on A2 or A1 paper.
We're looking at 2000 full (4) colour, and even the smallest of the local presses will do oversize A4 or A3, allowing for the bleed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don Arnoldy
If you are running on a press that can print no-larger-than-A3 paper, and you want the final trim size to be something-bigger-than-A4, there is no way to get more than 1-out. This means that there may be a good deal of waste. The trick then becomes how to take advantage of that waste.

You *could* create a 210 x 374, 4-panel brochure that would gate-fold to the same final size as the current brochure. Then (depending on the stock you choose) have room to squeeze out some "free" business cards, bookmarks, reply cards, or note pads around the edge.
I'm designing new business cards as well, so that could be a good option. Although she wants gloss one side only of the business cards, because she puts appointment details on the reverse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don Arnoldy
I don't know how well odd-sized brochures are tolerated in your area--here, there are two "common" sizes, and lots of examples uncommonly-sized brochures. Do these need to fit either into a rack with other brochures or a standard business envelope? If not, you've got more latitude in sizing.
The brochures don't need to be posted or fit into a rack. I checked that, and we're changing the orientation of the business card because she has trouble with the vertical orientation of the existing ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don Arnoldy
If the usage of the brochure is tolerant of size-variation, and you are using a bigger press, then you have more opportunity to reduce paper waste by changing the size of the piece. I don't have a metric imposititon table handy, so I can't give you a quick "ferinstance".

After making some preliminary decisions about paper, colors, and general size constraints, it would be an excellent idea to talk to some printers and get their input.
Thanks. The press size is an issue, and I will obviously have to speak to reps at both types of printers to get a cost-effective solution, then design to the constraints imposed by price. As usual. <g>

   
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Old 04-24-2005, 12:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterArnel
I am not sure what paper sizes u have out in the "outback" if u take the traditional paper sizes in the UK to get 4 pages A4 out is SRA2 450 x 640 - the useable size is about 425 x 630 the next size is B2 520 x 720 Useable size about 490 x 710 this gives u 4 pages of oversize A4 (B4) - Because all of the world everyone prints on Heidelbergs or Komori's ( the rest follow ) printers usually have presses to take either 26" or 28"(740) or 40" (1020) wide paper - I think its alway best to talk to your printer
Peter
Those sizes sound familiar, Peter, so I'm pretty sure they're used here. I'll do some ringing around tomorrow - can't do it today because it's Anzac Day. I'd hoped to get back to the client tomorrow, but will have to change it to Wednesday.

   
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Old 04-24-2005, 01:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donmcc
This is tough for us in NA to answer. I have only the vaguest idea of what A4 and A5 sizes are. However, there are two considerations: paper size and press size. The press size will limit the size of the job, or the ability to print 2 or more up (which will only really be a concern if the press runs are hight). The paper size determines how much stock will be wasted with various sizes.

Thus my advice also is to talk to the printer(s) who will be quoting on the job and find out what sizes they recommend.

Don McCahill
I can never remember the pesky things myself, so I put this together:

Page sizes
http://www.rdpslides.com/psfaq/FAQ00091.htm

   
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