DTP


 
Lively discussions on the graphic arts and publishing — in print or on the web


Go Back   Desktop Publishing Forum > General Discussions > Software

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2009, 02:46 AM   #1
iamback
Member
 
iamback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Amsterdam, NL
Posts: 4,894
Default Do I really want this?

So... Firefox 3.5 has been released, and mozilla.org lists its (new) developer features.

A large number of those can be safely ignored, because they're either browser-specific extensions (and we don't write for specific browsers any more, do we?) or specific to HTML5 which is not even close to a standard yet (and we only write standards-compliant web pages, don't we?).

There is also greater support for CSS2.1 (catching up) and CSS3 features - the latter also not a standard yet, but much more stable than HTML5; and (using appropriate care), CSS3 features can be added to a page in such a way that without them the page functions normally, putting graceful degradation in practice. You don't have such a choice with HTML5: it's either HTML5 or it isn't so since it's far from being a standard yet, it's best avoided.

Extensions for XUL and add-on developers are fine - in theory that will enable better or more usable extensions being written.

One thing jumps out at me: support for downloadable fonts. The page explains how a designer can use the feature, but unfortunately gives no clue whether or not the user can turn it off for faster rendering and avoid pages being re-painted while they are reading. Of course, this is also best avoided: if users can turn it off you might as well not use it in the first place, and if they cannot turn it off, you risk annoying the users (unless there is little more than a headline on the page, which has other disadvantages).

But personally, I'm reluctant to even install Firefox 3.5 unless I can be sure I can turn off downloadable fonts, because I really, really don't want them! Does anyone know if this is possible?

   
__________________
Marjolein Katsma
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces (soon!), My ArtFlakes shop and Flickr.
Occasionally I am also connecting online dots... and sometimes you can follow me on Marjolein's Travel Blog

Last edited by iamback; 07-05-2009 at 02:46 PM. Reason: ypot
iamback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 05:50 AM   #2
Kelvyn
Staff
 
Kelvyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the Heart of the English Lake District
Posts: 1,381
Default

I have 3.5 installed on two of my machines, having worked through the betas.

You can turn off @font-face in FF 3.5 chrome:
about:config, gfx.downloadable_fonts.enabled false

I believe that Safari for the Mac already has this font support - I'm not sure if it can be turned off there. ???

Interesting subject review & comments on http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/06/bea...ith-font-face/

   
__________________
Kelvyn

Web site design, hosting and marketing, Keswick in the UK Lake District

If you are planning a visit to Keswick then try Keswick Tourist Information website

Kelvyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 08:33 AM   #3
iamback
Member
 
iamback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Amsterdam, NL
Posts: 4,894
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvyn View Post
I have 3.5 installed on two of my machines, having worked through the betas.

You can turn off @font-face in FF 3.5 chrome:
about:config, gfx.downloadable_fonts.enabled false
Great, that's a relief!

Quote:
I believe that Safari for the Mac already has this font support - I'm not sure if it can be turned off there. ???
Well, I can't test that yet, as Isaac (my Macbook) is in coma while awaiting a HD transplantation (it's arrived, I just haven't gotten around to do the replacement yet -- and I want to set it up as a multi-boot now, which takes some research and preparation!).

Quote:
Interesting subject review & comments on http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/06/bea...ith-font-face/
One good argument there that I hadn't thought of: support for languages that require glyphs occurring only in a few (rare) fonts. Of course, if you really need that, it would be wise to warn the user that downloadable fonts need to be enabled! Yes, interesting discussion, too.

   
__________________
Marjolein Katsma
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces (soon!), My ArtFlakes shop and Flickr.
Occasionally I am also connecting online dots... and sometimes you can follow me on Marjolein's Travel Blog
iamback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 11:22 AM   #4
Kelvyn
Staff
 
Kelvyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the Heart of the English Lake District
Posts: 1,381
Default

Safari 4 beta on Windows has a buggy @font-face download as default - and I cannot find out if it can be disabled. There is a test page for this css funtion at http://craigmod.com/journal/font-face/

   
__________________
Kelvyn

Web site design, hosting and marketing, Keswick in the UK Lake District

If you are planning a visit to Keswick then try Keswick Tourist Information website

Kelvyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 11:44 AM   #5
ktinkel
Founding Sysop
 
ktinkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In Connecticut, on the Housatonic River near its mouth at Long Island Sound.
Posts: 11,189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvyn View Post
Safari 4 beta on Windows has a buggy @font-face download as default - and I cannot find out if it can be disabled. There is a test page for this css function at http://craigmod.com/journal/font-face/
I am viewing that page in Mac Safari 4 Public Beta (5528.16) — not the latest, which I haven’t installed yet — and seem to be seeing at least the fonts passed by @font-face if not all the intended effects.

Does my attachment show what Firefox 3.5 shows? It is certainly much different from what I see in FF 3.0.11.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	@font-face-saf4.png
Views:	21
Size:	75.1 KB
ID:	1496  

   
__________________
[SIZE=2][COLOR=LemonChiffon]::[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ktinkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 02:35 PM   #6
iamback
Member
 
iamback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Amsterdam, NL
Posts: 4,894
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktinkel View Post
I am viewing that page in Mac Safari 4 Public Beta (5528.16) — not the latest, which I haven’t installed yet — and seem to be seeing at least the fonts passed by @font-face if not all the intended effects.
Interesting... it's a nice example of the technique helping the designer, but not me, as a reader; being faced with a page like this I'd immediately go for the about:config -- in Firefox, that is. It'd be interesting to find out whether, and how, it can be turned off in Safari, though I think it's entirely possible for Apple to have the arrogance to decide for us we need fancy graphics more than we need legibility. But I wouldn't use Safari as my main browser anyway.

What about Opera then? I expect there will at least be a mechanism there to turn it off, but I'd like to know.

Quote:
Does my attachment show what Firefox 3.5 shows? It is certainly much different from what I see in FF 3.0.11.
Very different in my Firefox 3.0.10 as well: apart from the heading with an inappropriate line-height (!) the page is a lot more legible than with the fancy stuff (and it would render faster).

   
__________________
Marjolein Katsma
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces (soon!), My ArtFlakes shop and Flickr.
Occasionally I am also connecting online dots... and sometimes you can follow me on Marjolein's Travel Blog
iamback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 05:28 PM   #7
ktinkel
Founding Sysop
 
ktinkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In Connecticut, on the Housatonic River near its mouth at Long Island Sound.
Posts: 11,189
Default

To be honest, the page presented very fast, before I could even think to question it. So for some viewers with decent broadband, that might not be a factor.

I thought the setting was kind of twee — “fine typography” by someone who thought initial ornaments (out of alignment, p.s.) and sweet letters were what counted. But it seemed to work much more smoothly than I would have expected.

I agree that there really must be a way to turn it off.

Started another thread, after making myself dizzy reading long discussions of the pros and cons, methods, tactics, legal and economic ramifications, etc.

Unfortunately, it appears browser makers are plunging ahead. Seems as if a donnybrook is likely.

   
__________________
[SIZE=2][COLOR=LemonChiffon]::[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ktinkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:17 AM   #8
Kelvyn
Staff
 
Kelvyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the Heart of the English Lake District
Posts: 1,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktinkel View Post
Does my attachment show what Firefox 3.5 shows?
Yes, that's the same. I grabbed the latest version of Safari 4 beta for Windows & on that version a lot of the page is in italics. See attached.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	fontface.png
Views:	17
Size:	33.3 KB
ID:	1497  

   
__________________
Kelvyn

Web site design, hosting and marketing, Keswick in the UK Lake District

If you are planning a visit to Keswick then try Keswick Tourist Information website

Kelvyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 06:54 AM   #9
ktinkel
Founding Sysop
 
ktinkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In Connecticut, on the Housatonic River near its mouth at Long Island Sound.
Posts: 11,189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamback View Post
It'd be interesting to find out whether, and how, it can be turned off in Safari …
Guess you could build a user CSS file; Safari will use that by default if it exists. Or at least it used to.

   
__________________
[SIZE=2][COLOR=LemonChiffon]::[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ktinkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 12:32 PM   #10
iamback
Member
 
iamback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Amsterdam, NL
Posts: 4,894
Default

Gag - even harder to read!

   
__________________
Marjolein Katsma
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces (soon!), My ArtFlakes shop and Flickr.
Occasionally I am also connecting online dots... and sometimes you can follow me on Marjolein's Travel Blog
iamback is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Contents copyright 2004–2014 Desktop Publishing Forum and its members.