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Old 02-25-2008, 04:58 PM   #11
groucho
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So they say, and they say chromes have even less range than slides.

Yathink I spent some serious time with the (then) seriously expensive Cibachrome making my prints back then?<G>

"Printing" digital style simply lacks a part of the artisanal process, it isn't anywhere near as satisfying. At least not to me.
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:37 AM   #12
Cristen Gillespie
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groucho: Maybe FireExplorer9 will include a "revert" button that reclaims lost partial replies, too. Huh? <G>
Now that would be a good idea. I'm *sure* all those words had to go somewhere. They were so physically present at my last glimpse of them. <ggg>

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groucho: AH, but even my antique Coolscan has a gain adjustment, so I can punch it up enough to read the shadows, if I'm willing to lose highlights.
I have never used anything like that. Maybe it is something like the Shadow/Highlight adjustment in PS. But Norman Koren was right, at least as far as my experience goes. You get noise as you approach shadows that exceed the d-max of the scanner. You lose detail and a feeling of depth. Shove it back to where the noise isn't an obvious eyesore (and blurred noise is still an eyesore), and you've once again lost to the shadows. I do use Shadow/Highlight, but I have to be careful of reaching the point of recovery where noise begins to intrude -- and yes, I've been using dedicated noise-reducing software for years. They have limits that don't count in forensics, but do count where aesthetics are concerned.

It's always worth a try--using whatever tools you have to extend your dynamic range, but there aren't any miracles, alas.

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groucho: But unless you've got a transparency tray on that scanner...don't tell me you're scanning films/slides through a glass platter??
Well, yeah, I guess. It's not the best possible solution, but it's the cheapest<G> Actually, the flatbeds have received some interesting reviews that has led to dedicated film scanners becoming rather neglected. Flatbeds are not built for fine art, but as I said, my raw materials don't qualify for fine art. You take a portion of the lid off the lid, and it scans rather well if you're scanning old snapshots.

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groucho: apparently the new versions have an automated "HRD" function, which will combine multiple shots and diddle the transparency, to automate that rebuilding process. OK, "neat toy" on the list.<G>
Oh, there's a whole lot more than just HDR for those wanting to make the most out of their photos. It's certainly become a "neat toy."<G>

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groucho: Sure. If I could only stick the slides back in the 35mm camera and order it "MAKE RAWS!"
Your film is the past. You asked about cameras and wanted 16 bit A/D, not available at this time, even in the Canon 1dsMkIII, so definitely not affordable at this time. But DSLRs with RAW, even at a mere 14 bit A/D do have the kind of latitude for extending dynamic range you're looking for. So there's the future<G>

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groucho: "how long are you willing/able to wait for technology to advance and prices to come down? " Dunno, how long will the original Kodak media last in the shoebox?<G>
You might be different from me, but the media will no doubt last longer than I will, definitely longer than my interest will, and probably so will the high prices for the quality you seek.<G> I need to have something now in order to believe I'll have a bit of time to enjoy what I've done.

   
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:52 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by iamback View Post
It's worth mentioning that, effectively, the Nikon scan software lets you create a "RAW" file as a scan: It's something like the raw scan data plus the scan settings separated from them so you can then open the file and change the settings without having to re-scan, and without having to process in a photo editing program. You can do that additionally, of course, but the scan settings themselves can make a lot of difference, too.
(I have an 5000, but I'm assuming the possibilities of the 8000 or 9000's software won't be less. I haven't used it enough yet to be really skilled with it.)

One possible gotcha: the file extension of these "scan-raw" files is the same as RAW files produced by Nikon cameras but the image format is actually different, which may confuse some software.
Interesting. I'd only read, when I was thinking about getting a dedicated film scanner, that Nikon software wasn't up to VueScan or Silverfast. No one mentioned that it had a "raw" setting. That could be a great time-saver, assuming you can then save the files you produce from the "raw" file to a format other programs can read. I wouldn't want my files to be NEF, but unreadable<G>

   
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Old 02-26-2008, 07:23 AM   #14
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"Now that would be a good idea. I'm *sure* all those words had to go somewhere. "
They probably are in a "temp buffer" someplace, and it would be totally trivial programming to keep them undeletable, as opposed to flushing them instantly (which would be the better security procedure). Makes me wonder if they are hiding in a file with a specific name, where we COULD snatch them...hmmm....

"but there aren't any miracles, alas."
Oh DARN! So, I'll have to start buying wine instead of converting it from my tap water from now on? What a bummer!<G>

"DSLRs with RAW, even at a mere 14 bit A/D do have the kind of latitude for extending dynamic range you're looking for." So they are at least doing 14 for now, that's something specific to aim for.

"I need to have something now in order to believe I'll have a bit of time to enjoy what I've done."
Nah, you just need to learn Zen Photography. When I got tired of carrying a heavy camera bag (#1 was 26 lbs.) or deciding what not to carry, or how to pay for all the disposables...I just decided to take pictures "up here". Makes it harder to share them, but much easier to carry them around. And a good excuse to actually go out and see if they can be "taken" again.<G>
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:06 AM   #15
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groucho: Oh DARN! So, I'll have to start buying wine instead of converting it from my tap water from now on? What a bummer!<G>
Now, I never said there weren't miracles in the old-fashioned physical world. It's this digital world where the laws of physics don't hold, pixels can be any size, sensors "bloom" like flowers without providing food for bees, etc. <g>

Quote:
groucho: Nah, you just need to learn Zen Photography.
I've tried. It's usually too difficult to drag the camera around, even the ones that are under 10 lbs, so I really do try to be a good Zen photographer. But I keep falling into the trap of thinking I'm better than I am, and then time really shows me up. At least with digital photography, I'm occasionally surprised by discovering an image turned out better than I thought. '-}

   
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:56 AM   #16
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"It's this digital world where the laws of physics don't hold, "
Laws of phsyics? Oh, you mean, like the speed of light, which can drop to 30mph or less in a Bose-Einstein condensate? (Fifth state of matter.) I suspect that a lot of what we think are physical laws, are just local "appearances" that may be quite subject to change when or if we ever figure out what's really happening. Like why gravity works (usually) and why we don't just fall through the ground, instead of walking on it, when there's so much space between our atoms.
And if your camera captures photons, are you required to report them to the International Red Cross and forward care packages to them?<G>
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:02 AM   #17
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Zen Photography ...

Nice idea, but there are storage problems.

What is the sound of one mind snapping?

   
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:49 AM   #18
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Ask at your local post office, they hear those snaps all day every day.<G>

These days the meaning of "courtesy" has become "Shout GRENADE before you pull the pin and throw it." There's no doubt that you need to pull the pin and throw it on a regular basis, sad to say. Some folks just need to see the smoke and shrapnel in order to stop lying and provide customer service.

And what with the price of grenades, that's gotten to be a danged expensive way to get customer service, too.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:46 PM   #19
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<g>

Son, you just need a nice dose of Midwest. There are a few grouches at the post offices here, but by and large, the folks behind the counter are as pleasant and helpful as can be. No. You *can't* have them. They're ours and if you try to touch one of 'em ... GRENADE!!

   
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:43 AM   #20
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Groucho - do you know the Luminous Landscape? That has useful reviews (hands on rather than pixel peeping) of various bits of equipment, as well as articles on printing, bit depth etc. The forums are populated by knowledgeable (but often rude) people if you feel brave!

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/bit-depth.shtml
for starters?
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