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Old 11-23-2007, 02:55 AM   #1
Benwiggy
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Default Helvetica and Helv Neue in Leopard

Just thought I'd mention that in Leopard, both Helvetica and Helvetica Neue are included as .dfonts (TrueType) in the System font folder:
/System/Library/Fonts
They cannot be deactivated or even removed, as the System will re-install them itself if you try.
Helvetica and Helvetica Neue are obviously used heavily in graphic design work, and loads of work uses the Type1 PostScript versions, e.g. "Helvetica Neue 55 Roman".
There may well be problems with the OS favouring the TT version over the PS version, if you have both installed.

Some people have suggested using a brand new OpenType Helvetica Neue from Linotype for all your work, which will have the menu name "Helvetica Neue LT Std".
http://www.creativetechs.com/iq/prep...a_is_dead.html
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Old 11-23-2007, 04:54 AM   #2
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Default Apple OS Developers like MS Developers

As a MS Windows only user, I would comment that in this particular instance, the Apple OS Developers behave just like the Microsoft OS Developers. That is, they know better than the users what we want/need/asked for, and we had just better like it, or lump it. Of course, users of both systems find ways to rebel.

BTW, it seems that the suggested Helvetica fonts total $99 from Adobe.

Beyond that, of course I am not a DTP person, just a sometime web developer, but I have bought a few fonts, but none recently.
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Old 11-23-2007, 06:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benwiggy View Post
Just thought I'd mention that in Leopard, both Helvetica and Helvetica Neue are included as .dfonts (TrueType) in the System font folder:
/System/Library/Fonts
They cannot be deactivated or even removed, as the System will re-install them itself if you try.
[ … ]
There may well be problems with the OS favouring the TT version over the PS version, if you have both installed.
I haven’t installed Leopard yet, but in setting up a new computer the other day noticed the conflict between the Helvetica Neue TT installed in the “universal” fonts folder and my complete set of numbered T1 I was setting up in FontExplorer. I did notice they had the same “PostScript names” so triggered a conflict notice from the font manager.

But I can (and did) turn off the OS-installed Helvetica Neue fonts in Tiger; they can even be removed altogether. But apparently not in Leopard. Why, I wonder. I don’t think Helvetica is a particularly good screen font — for that, most users would be better off with Verdana, which is provided with the Office demo package Apple bundles with the OS.

To buy OpenType versions of the 10 fonts in Tiger you would have to buy 5 OT packages from Adobe, for a total of $600. And then you would have 28 weights, including the 10 Apple is using. And those 28 might not include all that you need for client work. Guess you could spend $1,100 or so and get the whole collection from Linotype.

   
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:27 AM   #4
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KT:

Quote:
I haven’t installed Leopard yet, but in setting up a new computer the other day noticed the conflict between the Helvetica Neue TT installed in the “universal” fonts folder and my complete set of numbered T1 I was setting up in FontExplorer. I did notice they had the same “PostScript names” so triggered a conflict notice from the font manager.
I think you have mentioned before that the Type 1 Helvetica fonts use the numbering based on the stroke weight, as does Helvetica Neue (available since 1983!): the TrueType versions of Helvetica don't. But the OpenType version of Helvetica Neue, called by Linotype Helvetica Neue Pro by Linotype, cannot be confused with the old Type 1 Helvetica fonts. Both the TrueType and OpenType come in 51 variations, so a full set costs a fair bit, but I suppose it's worth it if you are a professional.

   
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:04 AM   #5
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I'm now willing to forgive Apple a little bit over this, firstly because Helvetica Neue seems to be the 'default' choice of font for most graphic designers, and it would be good for them to consider something else for a change!

But mostly because I've just seen that font files in Leopard - even those not installed - are previewed in the Finder and in QuickView on the fly with a sample alphabet!!!!

(Sorry, I'm easily impressed by shiny things.)
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:21 PM   #6
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I'm now willing to forgive Apple a little bit over this, firstly because Helvetica Neue seems to be the 'default' choice of font for most graphic designers, and it would be good for them to consider something else for a change!
I guess. But Apple really isn’t the decider I would want making those decisions for me — especially if it puts me in a bad spot with clients.

There is a solution, you know: Open the conflicting T1 fonts in FontLab and spit out new ones with a slightly different name (add your initials). Then the type is the same but there will be no name conflicts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benwiggy
But mostly because I've just seen that font files in Leopard - even those not installed - are previewed in the Finder and in QuickView on the fly with a sample alphabet!!!!

(Sorry, I'm easily impressed by shiny things.)
I can understand that. It used to work in some long-ago version of the Mac system — you could view a font some easy way. Then it disappeared.

I use Linotype Font Explorer, and it has customizable previews. You do need to install the font in Explorer, I think, but then it works well. And the font need not be activated.

   
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