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Old 11-14-2007, 08:54 AM   #1
Steve Rindsberg
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Default System Fonts?

This is an offshoot of another thread ...

MS publishes lists of the fonts that may come with various versions of Windows. I imagine there are similar lists for MacOSX and different *nix distributions.

But in some cases, knowing what fonts are included isn't as useful as knowing what fonts the system requires.

A font that Windows may or may not install, depending on what options the user's chosen is not one that we can safely assume will be present on all Windows systems.

For a long time, it was safe to assume Arial, Times New Roman and Courier New on any Windows PC, but since Windows 98 or so, the list has expanded. Does anyone know of lists of fonts that are ALWAYS installed, by OS and version?

And to extend it a bit further: what about lists of fonts that each system requires for proper operation?

Users might uninstall, say, Tahoma w/o severe problems, but what fonts will Windows kick and fight to protect? Mac OSX?

   
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:11 AM   #2
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Recent versions of Mac OS X (Tiger, 10.4) make it very easy to know what fonts are required. They are the ones installed by the OS installer in the System > Library > Fonts folder.

Everything in the System folder is untouchable by the user, by intention. (Actually, you can give yourself super powers and do whatever you want, but then whatever ensues is on your head.) There are 32 and I won’t list them here, but any Mac user can easily see them. (The list includes Geneva, Helvetica, Lucida Grande, Monaco, Symbol, Times, and Zapf Dingbats. The other fonts represent non-Latin scripts.)

The OS and some applications also install fonts in the universal Library > Fonts folder. In my folder I see fonts from Apple, Adobe, Microsoft, Letraset, ITC, Monotype, and other sources. These the user can remove (or move to a separate folder anywhere and then control them by means of a font management program). But it does contain quite a few common fonts — not needed by the OS but likely to be useful for the human being! That list, of hundreds of fonts, includes the “web fonts” (Georgia, Verdana, Trebuchet, Webdings, etc.).

   
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Old 11-14-2007, 11:05 AM   #3
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This may help. You can choose operating system, not just the apps.

http://www.microsoft.com/typography/fonts/default.aspx

   
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Old 11-14-2007, 12:06 PM   #4
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By the way — only slightly off-topic here — in Mac OS X you can also place fonts in a user’s Library > Fonts folder. In that case, only that user will be able to use them.

And of course all the fonts will appear in a font manager. The 32 in the System fonts folder will appear as well, but greyed out and automatically activated.

   
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Old 11-14-2007, 02:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Rindsberg View Post
For a long time, it was safe to assume Arial, Times New Roman and Courier New on any Windows PC, but since Windows 98 or so, the list has expanded. Does anyone know of lists of fonts that are ALWAYS installed, by OS and version?

And to extend it a bit further: what about lists of fonts that each system requires for proper operation?

Users might uninstall, say, Tahoma w/o severe problems, but what fonts will Windows kick and fight to protect? Mac OSX?
Add Marlett to the list for Windows. Officially hidden but some programs show it in the fonts list: it's the font that has all the window widget symbols: arrows on scroll bars, the three buttons at the top of a window (minimize, full-screen/normalize, close) and a bunch more; it's done as a TrueType font so those symbols scale easily with the user's desktop settings. And Windows certainly threw a hissing fit when I once (unwittingly) uninstalled it... Then there's of course MS Sans serif, the default font for window text (at least in older versions of Windows).

   
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Old 11-14-2007, 04:01 PM   #6
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FWIW, here's what I have in /System/Library/Fonts ( by doing
ls > fonts.txt
in a terminal window). This matches up with your description, suggesting that the base set of fonts hasn't changed much over time; I'm still running 10.2.8 (Lapcat? FiercePussPuss? StunnedSiamese ... what was it's "cat name"?)

Apple LiGothic Medium.dfont
AppleGothic.dfont
AquaKanaBold.otf
AquaKanaRegular.otf
Courier.dfont
Geneva.dfont
Hei.dfont
Helvetica.dfont
Keyboard.dfont
LastResort.dfont
LucidaGrande.dfont
Monaco.dfont
Osaka.dfont
OsakaMono.dfont
Symbol.dfont
Times.dfont
ZapfDingbats.dfont
(The next 6 are Japanese fonts)
ヒラ*゙ノ丸ゴ Pro W4.otf
ヒラ*゙ノ明朝 Pro W3.otf
ヒラ*゙ノ明朝 Pro W6.otf
ヒラ*゙ノ角ゴ Pro W3.otf
ヒラ*゙ノ角ゴ Pro W6.otf
ヒラ*゙ノ角ゴ Std W8.otf
(and these would be Chinese)
华文细黑.ttf
华文黑体.ttf

   
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Old 11-14-2007, 04:11 PM   #7
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I thought about mentioning Marlett, but decided not to. Very few of us would prepare documents that assume its presence. <g>

But MS Sans Serif .. once in a while it does show up in a document, probably as the result of somebody choosing it in an older app that doesn't know better than to allow users to pick FON fonts. Come to think of it, WordPad permits this.

   
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Old 11-15-2007, 03:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Rindsberg View Post
I thought about mentioning Marlett, but decided not to. Very few of us would prepare documents that assume its presence. <g>
Maybe (there could be good reasons), but if you're listing system fonts it needs to be on the list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Rindsberg
But MS Sans Serif .. once in a while it does show up in a document, probably as the result of somebody choosing it in an older app that doesn't know better than to allow users to pick FON fonts. Come to think of it, WordPad permits this.
Equally, there can be very good resons for applications to allow users to specify MS Sans serif - not necessarily "older" ones. But those would not likely be applications that "specify" fonts in any files you produce with them.

But again, if you're listing system fonts, it belongs on the list, at least for older versions of Windows.

   
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Old 11-15-2007, 05:11 AM   #9
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Default .FON Fonts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Rindsberg View Post
But MS Sans Serif .. once in a while it does show up in a document, probably as the result of somebody choosing it in an older app that doesn't know better than to allow users to pick FON fonts. Come to think of it, WordPad permits this.
Here are the .FON fonts as installed with my new WinXP Pro computer. I doubt that I will need Czech or Swedish, though.


Directory of C:\WINDOWS\Fonts

08/04/2004 07:00 AM 8,704 modern.fon
08/04/2004 07:00 AM 13,312 roman.fon
08/04/2004 07:00 AM 12,288 script.fon
08/04/2004 07:00 AM 18,880 wst_czec.fon
08/04/2004 07:00 AM 18,880 wst_engl.fon
08/04/2004 07:00 AM 18,880 wst_fren.fon
08/04/2004 07:00 AM 18,880 wst_germ.fon
08/04/2004 07:00 AM 18,880 wst_ital.fon
08/04/2004 07:00 AM 18,880 wst_span.fon
08/04/2004 07:00 AM 18,880 wst_swed.fon
10 File(s) 166,464 bytes

Checking further, I find that none of the .FON fonts appear in the MS Word 2003 font list, but all of them appear as choices for MS Notepad and for Metapad. Metapad has what seems to be a shorter list than Word, with symbols O and TT (mostly O), with blank for the .FON fonts.

Last edited by dthomsen8; 11-15-2007 at 05:21 AM. Reason: Correction and Addition
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Old 11-15-2007, 05:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Rindsberg View Post
This matches up with your description, suggesting that the base set of fonts hasn't changed much over time
Tiger has six more: Geeza Pro .ttf regular and bold; Helvetica LT MM with its outline font; Times LT MM with its outline font; and another Chinese font whose name ends in Pro.ttf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Rindsberg
I'm still running 10.2.8 (Lapcat? FiercePussPuss? StunnedSiamese ... what was it's "cat name"?)
Panther.

   
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