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Old 08-20-2007, 01:34 AM   #1
Bevdeforges
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Default Fonts in pdf files

The national body of our association requires the use of certain fonts when using the logo, mostly freely available fonts, but they insist on us using MatrixScriptRegular (from Emigre) for the local name of the association. So, we forked out the $39 and bought the font.

Thinking it might be nice to use it for something more than 3 little words on the cover of the bulletin, I set up our bulletin to use this font for section headings. However, because the bulletin is in French, several of the headings use accented characters, mostly é and à (oops - supposed to be an a with the down sloping accent). No problem in OpenOffice - they show up very nicely and all is well, both on screen and in print.

However, when producing the pdf file from OpenOffice to give to the printer (actually, the photocopy shop guy in town), the é shows up as the combined oe character (which I can't seem to manage on my US International keyboard), and the à (the a with an accent grave agains) just produces a blank space.

I've tried everything I can think of - including using the "insert special character" function and experimenting with all the special characters to try and find which one might show up in the pdf file as the one I want. For the current issue, I just gave up and replaced all accented characters in my headlines (fortunately not too many) with Lucinda Calligraphy, which vaguely resembles the MatrixScriptRegular and reproduces without problem in the pdf file. Had to adjust the font size, however, to avoid throwing off the layout and it definitely looks like a kludge to anyone who knows anything about printing. (Fortunately, not too many folks in our association do...)

So, is my problem with the font itself? or with the pdf conversion in OpenOffice? Or am I just doing something wrong (like not holding my mouth right when I push the button to convert)?
Cheers,
Bev

Last edited by ktinkel; 08-20-2007 at 07:53 AM. Reason: using decimal entities seems to fix it; have to do both at once, as saving then opening makes it revert; ugh
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Old 08-20-2007, 02:01 AM   #2
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Are you embedding the characters? Sometimes, if the font is not embedded and not available on the target system, the OS substitutes characters from another font, which may not have the ones you want. (But if this is on your PC, sounds unlikely.)

What method are you using to create the PDF? I find that print to PostScript printer driver and Distiller often gives better results than using built-in shortcuts like the PDFMaker macros in MS Word for instance - no idea what OpenOffice offers though.

In older versions of Acrobat, using 'odd' point sizes (like 10.5) sometimes caused problems too.
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Old 08-20-2007, 03:32 AM   #3
Bevdeforges
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AFAICT OpenOffice doesn't give you the option to embed the fonts when exporting to pdf. But what's weird is that I'm creating the pdf and then viewing on the same system, so it can't be a problem of not having the font available on the system.

OpenOffice has always done an adequate job of exporting to pdf's, including showing fonts that aren't on the viewing system. It seems to be just this one proprietary font... (which isn't supposed to be embedded at all, according to the licensing agreement).

I do the covers on Scribus, where I can control the embedding or outlining of fonts, but come to think of it, I don't have any accented characters in MatrixScript on any of the covers I've done so far.

I'd like to avoid having to produce the bulletin pages in Scribus if I can. Since we have the interior pages "printed" at the local copy shop, it seems a bit OTT, but maybe I should play around a bit with Scribus once this current issue is done.
Cheers,
Bev
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Old 08-20-2007, 04:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevdeforges View Post
It seems to be just this one proprietary font... (which isn't supposed to be embedded at all, according to the licensing agreement).
Preoblem solved. TrueType and OpenType fonts have a flag in the specification that can prevent embedding within PDFs. So, if the foundry doesn't want you to embed their font, they can set the flag and most distillers will not embed the font.
I make a point of not buying such fonts, and raising the issue with the manufacturer. It's like buying sugar that you can't make cakes with.

In Acrobat Pro or Reader, check the fonts in the Document Properties (cmd-D). You will be able to see what fonts are in the document and whether they have been embedded.
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Old 08-20-2007, 04:39 AM   #5
Bevdeforges
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OK - I learned something! In the properties section, it shows MatrixScriptRegular as Embedded.

Oddly enough, all the other fonts (standard Windows fonts) show up as "Embedded Subset". The other fonts are also TrueType fonts, whereas MatrixScriptRegular is a Type 1 font.

I fully agree with you about not buying "crippled" fonts like this. However, it's the national arm of the association that insists on us using this font for their logo. (Like, they also offer a template for the cover they require us to use on the bulletin - but only in Quark Express format... like all these volunteer associations have lots of folks who just happen to have Quark on their machines.)

I will raise this particular issue, however, with our association board. There has been some growing sentiment for breaking free of the national group, thanks to some of these bizarre "requirements" they place on us.

Thanks for the help. I guess I may have to live with my "mixed font" option - at least for the time being.
Cheers,
Bev
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:38 AM   #6
Michael Rowley
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Bev:

Quote:
they insist on us using MatrixScriptRegular (from Emigre)
Emigré has a rather idiosyncratic embedding policy. If the fonts you are using are in the old Type 1 format, there is nothing about this in the font files, and Acrobat will certainly embed them, even if it is not in conformity with the terms of use. But all TrueType and OpenType/Type 1 fonts (extensions TTF and OTF) have the category of embedding allowed built in to font file, and Acrobat (& Distiller) observe these strictly.

   
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Old 08-20-2007, 07:56 AM   #7
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There is no 'do not embed' flag in Type 1 fonts, because the specification was written before embedding was invented!

As you observe, the PS font is being embedded, so the problem may lie elsewhere - probably some incorrect handling of the character set/Unicode* by OpenOffice, or some incorrect glyph attribution in the font.

I would try re-creating the problem in a different app; and try outputting PostScript from OO and then Distilling it, in a 2-step process, rather than exporting PDF directly.

* Before anyone says it, yes I know T1 fonts don't do Unicode.
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Old 08-20-2007, 03:16 PM   #8
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Ben:

My message said, 'If the fonts you are using are in the old Type 1 format, there is nothing about this in the font files'; by 'this' I should have said that I meant any information about embedding. The fixed types of embedding permission seem to have been cooked up by Adobe, Apple, and Microsoft, and Emigré doesn't seem to agree with them.

   
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:42 PM   #9
Steve Rindsberg
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One way around this problem is to open the logo graphic in any reasonable drawing program (Illustrator, Corel Draw, perhaps others), set the type in any font you like, then convert the fonted text to paths/curves/whatever the app calls it. You then have a vector drawing that looks like it uses your chosen fonts but in fact doesn't.

   
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rowley View Post
Ben:

My message said, 'If the fonts you are using are in the old Type 1 format, there is nothing about this in the font files'; by 'this' I should have said that I meant any information about embedding. The fixed types of embedding permission seem to have been cooked up by Adobe, Apple, and Microsoft, and Emigré doesn't seem to agree with them.
I'm not sure we are disagreeing.
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