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Old 08-13-2007, 07:02 PM   #1
Marilynx
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Default Pagemaker 7

Heyla, folks....

Well, it looks like I'm going to have to quit procrastinating about getting my "How To" book on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet together, not to mention my gluten free (aka SCD) Louisiana cookbook together.

Friend of mine called last night and said, "Guess what... I found a copy, sealed, of Pagemaker 7 on Ebay, and it's enroute to you! Now, will you get those books together before I go crazy and my phone bill goes out the window?"

Step 1 on receipt of program: read the directions.

Step 2: install the program

Step 3: come out here to the DTP Forum and scream for help.

(Thanks in advance....)

   
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Old 08-14-2007, 06:55 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Marilynx View Post
Friend of mine called last night and said, "Guess what... I found a copy, sealed, of Pagemaker 7 on Ebay, and it's enroute to you! Now, will you get those books together before I go crazy and my phone bill goes out the window?"

Step 1 on receipt of program: read the directions.

Step 2: install the program

Step 3: come out here to the DTP Forum and scream for help.
That sounds like fun. You should hurry and get into it, though — so there will be enough of us with useful collective memory about how to use PageMaker to be of help.

My current computer will run it, but am thinking of upgrading, and the next one will not run PageMaker at all. So do hurry up, ask your questions!

I may be able to recommend a couple of useful books on PageMaker. In fact, if I can find them, I may be able to send one to you!

   
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Old 08-14-2007, 02:12 PM   #3
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That sounds like fun. You should hurry and get into it, though — so there will be enough of us with useful collective memory about how to use PageMaker to be of help.

My current computer will run it, but am thinking of upgrading, and the next one will not run PageMaker at all. So do hurry up, ask your questions!

I may be able to recommend a couple of useful books on PageMaker. In fact, if I can find them, I may be able to send one to you!
Kathleen,

Just because I'm perpetually behind on things... I mean, I still use Word XP, and would be using Word 6 is it could have handled long file names. Actually, I'd still be using WordStar if my fiction co-author had it...

I've had least had time to think about the layouts: I'm just going to have to see how Pagemaker will let me do it. Probably end up going with Lulu for the printing since it's very decidedly small press type thing.

I'm torn about photographs in the cook book -- there have been a couple SCD cook books recently with fabulous color spreads. But that increases the cost of printing the book drastically. I'm actually thinking of going with a slightly larger font -- maybe 14 points? -- which would make it easier a cook to have the book set up on the counter and still be able to see it. One thing which occurred to me was including a CD with photos of all the dishes, and possibly some step-by-step ones in it.

I really want to keep the cookbook simple, yet attractive. Have to get with my local artist to get the section art done. And the cover. Said artist suggested a picture of Emeril in a pot with a shrimp, a crawfish, and a crab gathered around and seasoning him, but I'm inclined to feel that could be an infringement.

For the how to book, I'm figuring on a cartoon at the start of each chapter, and some consistent "tip" or "hint" or "think about" graphic that can be scattered throughout. Haven't the foggiest idea what comes to mind for the cover yet.

I regularly work in Times-Roman for body text, but I'm given to understand that it's positively passe these days.

Any thoughts? Be grateful for useful books. I never can find things in the online help. They don't index things the way I think!

   
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Old 08-14-2007, 02:43 PM   #4
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marilyn: not to mention my gluten free (aka SCD) Louisiana cookbook together.
Please let me know when it is done and how to order it...one of my nieces has celiac disease and I know she would be very interested in it...

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Old 08-14-2007, 08:20 PM   #5
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Please let me know when it is done and how to order it...one of my nieces has celiac disease and I know she would be very interested in it...
Terrie,

Be glad to. In the mean time, you might get her a copy of Elaine Gottschall's book, Breaking the Vicious Cycle. My niece is is also celiac, and I gave her a copy of BTVC and Lucy's cook book for SCD. (Available from Lucy's Kitchen Shop) I've been following the program for six years, and have not been deprived in any way. Beef and bean burritoes with guacamole, anyone? Or Cajun BBQ'd Jumbo Lump Crabmeat?

   
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:06 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Marilynx View Post
I've had least had time to think about the layouts: I'm just going to have to see how Pagemaker will let me do it. Probably end up going with Lulu for the printing since it's very decidedly small press type thing.
PageMaker can produce any sort of layout you can think of — I used it for book and magazine production for many years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilynx
I'm actually thinking of going with a slightly larger font -- maybe 14 points? -- which would make it easier a cook to have the book set up on the counter and still be able to see it.
Until you choose the typeface and the size of the pages, it is pointless to speak of type size. At any given size, some look larger than others, and the length of the line will dictate how large the type should be. However, 14 point in any font I can think of is very large. They use type of that size for large-print books or lectern bibles.

The best way to make the book useful that way would be to use a comb or spiral binding. Then the spreads will lie perfectly flat. Barring that, be sure to leave sufficient margins on the pages. You do not want text to fall in the shadow area where the pages meet the binding edge. And that margin should be narrower than the outer one, where hands go. (The text should amount to about 50% of the area of each page.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilynx
I regularly work in Times-Roman for body text, but I'm given to understand that it's positively passe these days.
It’s not that it is passe, although its very familiarity can make it look unserious. More to the point, though, it is not a good book type (too narrow). If you need to use a font you already have, see if you have Century Schoolbook. That is a good text face, very readable. Also sturdy and sensible, able to withstand any sort of printing process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilynx
Any thoughts? Be grateful for useful books. I never can find things in the online help. They don't index things the way I think!
I suspect PageMaker will not think the way you do either. It was originally designed for graphic designers and typesetters, and used their terminology and mode of thinking. The hardest part will be overcoming the warped way that Word thinks of things, but we’ll be here to help.

I will look for my most recent PageMaker books, see if any will work with version 7. (Older books might be more confusing.)

   
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Old 08-15-2007, 10:34 AM   #7
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PageMaker can produce any sort of layout you can think of — I used it for book and magazine production for many years.
I'm sure it can -- I merely meant figuring out how to do a particular layout that I might have in mind the way Pagemaker does it, rather than the way I've done it in other programs.

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Until you choose the typeface and the size of the pages, it is pointless to speak of type size. At any given size, some look larger than others, and the length of the line will dictate how large the type should be. However, 14 point in any font I can think of is very large. They use type of that size for large-print books or lectern bibles.
Lulu indicates that the sizes they can do are:

6" x 9" - Novel
8.5" x 11" - U.S. Letter
7.5" x 7.5" - Square
8.5" x 8.5" - Larger Square
6.625" x 10.25" - Comic Book
9" x 7" - Landscape
6.14" x 9.21" - Royal
7.44" x 9.68" - Crown Quarto
8.27" x 11.69" - A4
4.25" x 6.875" - Pocket size

I'm considering either a Novel size or their Landscape -- a book which is too large is a pain in the keister if you don't have much kitchen space. I know 14 point is considered large print -- one reason I'm considering it. I've printed my recipes out on half pages (5.5 x 8.5) and stuck them on the hood of my stove, or back on the wall behind my work area, or any number of places, and the recipe is easily visible without having to grab the book with food-covered hands to see what you have to add next. It does result in more pages, but is easier to use.

Quote:
The best way to make the book useful that way would be to use a comb or spiral binding. Then the spreads will lie perfectly flat. Barring that, be sure to leave sufficient margins on the pages. You do not want text to fall in the shadow area where the pages meet the binding edge. And that margin should be narrower than the outer one, where hands go. (The text should amount to about 50% of the area of each page.)
Spiral binding already planned. I've worked with comb bindings for years -- I own a comb binder. (I did 100 page quarterly news/lit zines for a number of years) and I think the wire spiral binding would be more durable than a plastic comb. I think Word calls the shadow area "the gutter". <g> I've lost track of how many road atlases we have where the town we're looking for is always in the crack.

Quote:
It’s not that it is passe, although its very familiarity can make it look unserious. More to the point, though, it is not a good book type (too narrow). If you need to use a font you already have, see if you have Century Schoolbook. That is a good text face, very readable. Also sturdy and sensible, able to withstand any sort of printing process.
Century, and Garamond, another favorite, show up, at least on my screen, as significantly lighter than Times-Roman. I note that Century shows as larger than Garamond, with wider line spacing than Garamond, although they are equally dark.

For people whose eyes may not be as good as they wish, the "greying" effect of the lighter font can make it hard to read. I have two editions of a reference book I use all the time. One was printed in a darker print, the other in an otherwise-readable font which is not as bold as the first book. Although the lighter one is the newer edition of the reference, I keep going to the one which is easier to read. I've done layouts of Daughters of the American Revolution, Colonial Dames of the XVII Century, and etc. yearbooks (my mother regularly volunteers me...) and people with visual acuity problems, in my experience, tend to go for the heavier font.

Of course, you've probably worked with a much wider range of people than I have, so your opinion definitely has weight. Looking at the same text, side by side, in the three fonts, I like Garamond very much, but definitely find Century more readable.

Quote:
I suspect PageMaker will not think the way you do either. It was originally designed for graphic designers and typesetters, and used their terminology and mode of thinking. The hardest part will be overcoming the warped way that Word thinks of things, but we’ll be here to help.
I don't think the way Word does. I've just gotten used to it, since it was what I had. A long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away), I did real paste up and lay out where paste up meant exactly that. I still hate the smell of rubber cement! And Word simply cannot do the layout on either the cook book or the How To book. I've been fighting with Word XP since I got the blasted thing. As a word processor, it's adequate, if slow. But I don't like it for anything more complex than a fancified set of pages.

Quote:
I will look for my most recent PageMaker books, see if any will work with version 7. (Older books might be more confusing.)
Much appreciated! Learning curves can be... an entertainment. (Probably for the gods of perversity....)

   
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Old 08-15-2007, 01:49 PM   #8
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marilyn: Be glad to.
Cool!


>>In the mean time, you might get her a copy of Elaine Gottschall's book, Breaking the Vicious Cycle. My niece is is also celiac, and I gave her a copy of BTVC and Lucy's cook book for SCD. (Available from Lucy's Kitchen Shop)

Thanks so much for that info...I'll see if she knows/has either of those...

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Old 08-15-2007, 01:59 PM   #9
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I'm considering either a Novel size or their Landscape
I would hate landscape, myself. It tends to flop around, and you really cannot make efficient use of the width if you want to keep the type readable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilynx
I think the wire spiral binding would be more durable than a plastic comb.
True. And more attractive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilynx
Century, and Garamond, another favorite, show up, at least on my screen, as significantly lighter than Times-Roman. I note that Century shows as larger than Garamond, with wider line spacing than Garamond, although they are equally dark.
That is probably a fluke of the screen. Print some text out to see how they compare. Do you have Century? Or Century Old Style? Century Schoolbook? All different faces. Schoolbook is reminiscent of primer texts, and I think it would be good for your project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilynx
For people whose eyes may not be as good as they wish, the "greying" effect of the lighter font can make it hard to read. … and people with visual acuity problems, in my experience, tend to go for the heavier font.

Of course, you've probably worked with a much wider range of people than I have, so your opinion definitely has weight. Looking at the same text, side by side, in the three fonts, I like Garamond very much, but definitely find Century more readable.
Any Century (except perhaps Old Style) should be more readable than almost Garamond — and what you have is almost certainly Monotype Garamond, which is among the most spidery of the desktop digital Garamonds.

   
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Old 08-15-2007, 02:19 PM   #10
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kt: Century Schoolbook
I love Century Schoolbook--actually New Century Schoolbook...

I used to use that when I was writing course books/class workbooks when I worked for Unisys...

Haven't used it in eons though...

I was also going to ask Marilyn if she tried printing off various samples as sometimes a that doesn't read well on the screen does quite nicely on paper...

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