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Old 07-07-2007, 12:09 AM   #1
Richard Waller
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Default 07.07.07

Today is one of the few days when the differences between the American and English conventions of dating do not matter. Today is July 7 2007 or 7 July 2007, or even 2007.July.Seven. Treasure this day. It will not occur again for 13 months and one day.

Seven is also a lucky number on many countries. Apparently there is a queue of couples waiting to get married today at Gretna Green, just over the border into Scotland, always a romantic place to be wed, and without the hassle of having the bans called on three Sundays at your local church

   
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:14 PM   #2
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...at Gretna Green, just over the border into Scotland, always a romantic place to be wed, and without the hassle of having the bans called on three Sundays at your local church
Is it only in Scotland that banns have to be called, or is that the case in England as well? What if you don't believe in God?

   
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Old 07-07-2007, 10:42 PM   #3
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I thought that the churches required bans on three Sundays in England. And that Scotland had different conventions. What the civil marriages rules might be I do not know. Perhaps they have a public notice system there. It is 45 years since I worried about these things <g>

   
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Old 07-08-2007, 02:11 AM   #4
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I thought the main reason for heading to Gretna Green was that under Scottish Law you did not need parental consent to marry once you reached the age of 16. In England you needed it up to age 18, or prior to the late 1960s up to age 21 even.
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Old 07-08-2007, 02:20 AM   #5
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I thought that the churches required bans on three Sundays in England. And that Scotland had different conventions. What the civil marriages rules might be I do not know. Perhaps they have a public notice system there. It is 45 years since I worried about these things <g>
I found a fairly recent (2001) article on church banns on the BBC site. Noting your spelling of 'banns' as 'bans', maybe that is an indication of the origin of the verb 'to ban'... ?

   
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:29 AM   #6
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Default 8/8/8

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Originally Posted by Richard Waller View Post
Today is one of the few days when the differences between the American and English conventions of dating do not matter. Today is July 7 2007 or 7 July 2007, or even 2007.July.Seven. Treasure this day. It will not occur again for 13 months and one day.
The next such day, August 8, 2008, is going to be a big day for Chinese weddings, 8 being a lucky day in Chinese numerology. The digit 8 is important in the Chinese stock market, with prices and even company registration numbers containing that digit, or 8 repeated, being lucky and a reason to buy the stock. There was a long article in the Wall Street Journal about the importance of 8 in Chinese thinking some months ago.
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Old 07-08-2007, 05:20 AM   #7
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I found a fairly recent (2001) article on church banns on the BBC site. Noting your spelling of 'banns' as 'bans', maybe that is an indication of the origin of the verb 'to ban'... ?
I've always interpreted it as such, though I may be mistaken, of course.

In the Netherlands we have what is called "ondertrouw": the couple needs to register their plan to marry with the Municipality where they live (they can indicate they intend to marry in another municipality). Required documentation includes proof any previous marriage or registered partnership has been dissolved (if there was any such marriage or partnership). If permission is needed for the marriage, a proof of such permission also needs to be filed.

There is a legal minimum and maximum period between "ondertrouw" and the actual marriage date although municipalities may set their own (stricter) rules. This period is intended to verify that all legal requirements for the intended marriage are met.

I can't find any reference, but it used to be the case that the act of "ondertrouw" would be posted publicly so anyone knowing of any (legal) obstructions for the marriage could come forward. This is what the "banning" in my mind refers to.

   
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:34 AM   #8
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Ann:

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Is it only in Scotland that banns have to be called, or is that the case in England as well? What if you don't believe in God?
As far as I know, the regulations are the same in all the UK: there has to be public notice of all intended marriages of not less than three weeks. The registrar has to be present at the wedding ceremony, except if it is performed in a church of the Church of England (or in Scotland, the Church of Scotland?), & the registrar certifies that the couple were married by him (or her). If the wedding is in a non-CE church or chapel, the officiating priest, pastor, etc. also 'certifies' it: that way there's no arguement about whether the state or the church performed the marriage ceremony.

Most countries have stricter rules to avoid bigamous marriages.

   
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:54 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Barrie Greed View Post
I thought the main reason for heading to Gretna Green was that under Scottish Law you did not need parental consent to marry once you reached the age of 16. In England you needed it up to age 18, or prior to the late 1960s up to age 21 even.
You are quite right. Wikipedia has a good entry. And if you dash off to Gretna Green you still have to stay there for 21 days before you get married at the blacksmith's forge.

We don't seem to worry here about blood tests which I understand are necessary in the US. The chief worry seems to be for the brides parents as the average cost of a wedding is apparently at least 10,000 UKP. About the same as the average costs of moving house.

   
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:31 PM   #10
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There is a legal minimum and maximum period between "ondertrouw" and the actual marriage date although municipalities may set their own (stricter) rules. This period is intended to verify that all legal requirements for the intended marriage are met.
I wonder if there's some connection between 'onderterouw' and the English 'betrothal'?

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I can't find any reference, but it used to be the case that the act of "ondertrouw" would be posted publicly so anyone knowing of any (legal) obstructions for the marriage could come forward. This is what the "banning" in my mind refers to.
Yes, that's always been the connection in my mind between 'banns' and 'ban', too.

   
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