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Old 02-09-2007, 08:37 AM   #11
ktinkel
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Originally Posted by PeterArnel View Post
I know some have been talking about creep - but with 20 pages on say 130 gsm it really is not to relevant .
It is enough to make a messy outside edge, though. You need to have a generous enough margin — if not a genuine creep allowance — so you can trim off the edges.

Just make the outer margin extra wide; hardly anyone would notice.

   
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Old 02-10-2007, 04:08 PM   #12
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We always used to leave this process to the (commercial) printer. Nowadays, though, people want to do it on their own desktop printers.
And people have the tendency to use 8.5x11 paper folded. But I don't really like the way the size looks, feels, or reads. I don't think that on booklets DTP people can lower standards and expect the publication to be taken seriously. So these last few weeks I've been thinking about my options of the most practical way to create better sizes, even if I have to use a paper cutter. Does anyone have any suggestions on this?? Are there basic rules to follow on things like line length. I prefer 11 pt for booklets, just for how it looks and reads for myself. Is that a good size in general?

And what about paper? I use 28lb., 96 bright. I just pick it from what is on the shelf at an office supply store. However, I buy the covers from a paper supply store that seems to have a much larger selection. I can't go below 28 lb. without the print showing through. But I actually like the feel of the weight. I wonder if I should want something so bright, but I'm not sure where to buy off-white or if that is most practical.

And yet, it seems that the booklets I know of that go around the world by the millions, have the lowest standards on paper, print, layout, and worst of all quality of content. It's like the best loved poetry -- yuk, don't read it.

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Old 02-10-2007, 05:29 PM   #13
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I've been thinking about my options of the most practical way to create better sizes, even if I have to use a paper cutter. Does anyone have any suggestions on this??
You are at the mercy of your printer’s sheet capacity. If you can print 11 X 17 inches, you have some latitude, but if all you can print are letter sheets, much less so.

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Are there basic rules to follow on things like line length. I prefer 11 pt for booklets, just for how it looks and reads for myself. Is that a good size in general?[
What font? Makes all the difference in the world — one face at 11 point could be smaller, visually, than another at 10.

And yes, there are recommended line lengths. I usually recommend that you set the type in a face and size that allows an average of about 10 words per line (a word being 6 letters and spaces).

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And what about paper? I use 28lb., 96 bright.
An off-white is better than bright for reading. Look on the web for paper sources, or in your local yellow pages for print shop suppliers, where you should be able to find all sorts of stock.

   
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Old 02-10-2007, 05:44 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by George View Post
And people have the tendency to use 8.5x11 paper folded. But I don't really like the way the size looks, feels, or reads. I don't think that on booklets DTP people can lower standards and expect the publication to be taken seriously. So these last few weeks I've been thinking about my options of the most practical way to create better sizes, even if I have to use a paper cutter. Does anyone have any suggestions on this?? Are there basic rules to follow on things like line length. I prefer 11 pt for booklets, just for how it looks and reads for myself. Is that a good size in general?

And what about paper? I use 28lb., 96 bright. I just pick it from what is on the shelf at an office supply store. However, I buy the covers from a paper supply store that seems to have a much larger selection. I can't go below 28 lb. without the print showing through. But I actually like the feel of the weight. I wonder if I should want something so bright, but I'm not sure where to buy off-white or if that is most practical.

And yet, it seems that the booklets I know of that go around the world by the millions, have the lowest standards on paper, print, layout, and worst of all quality of content. It's like the best loved poetry -- yuk, don't read it.

George
While I haven't taken them up on it yet, I asked and they said I can have paper custom cut (no extra charge) at my local Xpedx (Tempe, AZ). Perhaps there's one near you. As for me, I was testing some Kromekote stocks in my Phaser (and the weight I really wanted to try only comes in 2x x 3x press-oriented sizes).
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Old 02-11-2007, 05:55 AM   #15
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Kathleen,

Thanks for the response. I've really been thinking hard on booklets lately. I was at a coffee shop that gives out booklets in the style I use, and it made me realize more how the layout affects the way the content is viewed. I want to improve.

Yes, I can print in 11x17. I am using NCS at your suggestion so long ago, but I am actually satisfied with how Georgia prints, and it looks just as good, if not better. (I keep thinking about how you like Miller, and that alone makes me think, maybe, one day I should buy it. Your knowledge of fonts and willingness to talk to people is just one of the things that makes this forum so unique and a special find).

So I was thinking, maybe, I'll just do a page layout on the WP for a smaller page and cut the paper after printing. I want a nice look, feel, and read. In a booklet these factors affect how the content reaches people. It's important. Do you have preferred sizes for booklets?? Do you have preferred shades of white for reading??

George

Kathleen, apparently I got this post as a response to myself instead of to you, but I think a reader can figure it out.
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Old 02-11-2007, 06:00 AM   #16
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While I haven't taken them up on it yet, I asked and they said I can have paper custom cut (no extra charge) at my local Xpedx (Tempe, AZ). Perhaps there's one near you. As for me, I was testing some Kromekote stocks in my Phaser (and the weight I really wanted to try only comes in 2x x 3x press-oriented sizes).
Thanks, I'll keep this in mind.

Be back tomorrow.

George
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Old 02-11-2007, 07:56 AM   #17
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maybe, I'll just do a page layout on the WP for a smaller page and cut the paper after printing. I want a nice look, feel, and read. In a booklet these factors affect how the content reaches people. It's important. Do you have preferred sizes for booklets?? Do you have preferred shades of white for reading??
I tend to like small booklets that can be held comfortably in one hand for reading. That means wide margins (place for the reader’s thumb) and space for type wide enough to be set readably — for an average of about 10 words a line; or by another guide, about as wide as one-and-a-half lowercase alphabets in the text type being used.

The proportion is usually close to the Golden Section, something like 2:3. That would make a 5-1/2"-wide booklet 7-1/2" tall. But you need to look at spreads, not only pages. Open, that same booklet would be 11 X 7-1/2" inches; how does that work with your material?

Then you need to think about money. How will that spread cut out of 11 X 17-inch stock (or whatever size you have), keeping in mind that you want the grain to run the length (height) of the book in all pages. You could get two spreads out of 17-inch stock, but the width might be problematic. So you could consider dropping down to 5-1/4-inch wide X 7-3/4" tall (or even 5 X 7-1/2") and see how they set. Then you will know the page size.

Traditionally, margins would be 1:1:2:3 (inside:top:outside:bottom) with folios (page numbers) within the bottom margin.

I have never made a self-printed booklet, and always use a paper available at the printer’s. Usually that would be a Mohawk Superfine, probably an eggshell finish. That is just warmly off-white — beautiful text sheet. But if you are printing with laser (toner), you should do tests to see how it adheres. There may be a similar but better sheet for laser printing.

P.S. — Weird. I had to disable smilies in this post to avoid having “top:outside” appear with a sad smilie in the middle of it!

   
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:12 AM   #18
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Kathleen,

Thanks again. This is good stuff to think about. But I can't do anything fast anymore, as I always have too many projects going. I gave up trying to narrow them down.

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P.S. — Weird. I had to disable smilies in this post to avoid having “toputside” appear with a sad smilie in the middle of it!
Actually, I always think of you as smiling!

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Old 03-15-2007, 01:11 PM   #19
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Incidentally-
"a document with 20 pages. ...5 pages double sided and the fold them to have a thickness of 10 pages"

I think you mean, printing on five sheets each double sided, and folding each sheet fourfold, to make four pages from each sheet.

Pieces of paper are sheets, each sheet has two sides which become two pages, more when you start folding them up, binding them, etc.

The best way to start any imposition work like this is to make a dummy with blank paper, put it all together, then number all the pages. Unfold it all out flat again, and see how they actually match up for positions on the sheets. You may be surprised at the amount of creep and spread and the way you need to allow gutter and trim space. If the job is being professionally printed, it may be simplest to give the printer all twenty separate pages and let them do the imposition (aka stripping up) at their end, since they are familiar with this.
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Old 03-15-2007, 02:47 PM   #20
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For ID CS (not CS2) on Mac OS X there is an imposition script available at

Scriptbuilders

which is free.
There's also a newer version for both CS and CS2 in the same place.

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