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Old 02-04-2007, 06:12 AM   #1
Michael Rowley
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Default Peculiar embedding behaviour

I recently wrote the draft of an article in Constantia, and as that typeface looked very satisfactory and could be 'editably' embeddable in Word, I decided to keep it for the finished version. But I found that all the text appeared as italic when all the fonts were deactivated in my computer. Has anyone experienced anything similar? (I was using Windows XP.)

   
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Old 02-04-2007, 07:41 AM   #2
dthomsen8
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Default Deactivate all fonts?

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Originally Posted by Michael Rowley View Post
...But I found that all the text appeared as italic when all the fonts were deactivated in my computer. ...
How did you deactivate all fonts in your computer? Why would you want to do that, anyway? Sorry, but I don't understand what you are doing, or any rationale for doing it.

It seems to me that if you open a MS Word document which has a font specified, and that font is not available on that the particular computer, the operating system will use a default font instead. Perhaps someone can tell us how the default font is selected.
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Old 02-04-2007, 08:07 AM   #3
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>>It seems to me that if you open a MS Word document which has a font specified, and that font is not available on that the particular computer, the operating system will use a default font instead.

Under Windows, when an application requests a font that's not installed, the OS will supply the best match it can come up with from the available fonts installed on the system. For example, it'll never substitute a sans serif for a serif font (so long as it has serif fonts available).

But that's not relevant in this case; Word and some other apps can embed needed fonts in the document, making them available for use when someone opens the document on a system that doesn't have the font installed.

I'm guessing that Michael means "all the embedded fonts" were deactivated, not ALL fonts on the system. That'd be the logical thing to do if one were testing to see whether the fonts needed for the document were in fact properly embedded and usable as such.

So much for the background. As to why it's actiing the way it does, I've not a clue.

   
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Old 02-04-2007, 08:31 AM   #4
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Dave:

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How did you deactivate all fonts in your computer?
Sorry: loose language on my part. I should have said all the (four) fonts that belong to the typeface family 'Constantia'. I wrote the document with them active in my computer, then closed it (making sure that all TrueType fonts were embedded), deactivated the four fonts, and reopened the document. The purpose of all this was to make sure that (a) another person getting the document saw the correct font, (b) that the file was not marked 'read only' in another computer (i.e. that someone could edit it).

I've done it before, and had avoided all the know snags, but I wasn't expecting that the most important font, Constantia regular, would not be embedded.

Steve R. has interpreted my message correctly, by the way.

Normally I'd use Acrobat and supply the document in PDF, but it was important that it should be editable. As it turned out, I was forced to change the fonts, which was no bother.

   
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Old 02-04-2007, 08:42 AM   #5
Gerry Kowarsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rowley View Post
I recently wrote the draft of an article in Constantia, and as that typeface looked very satisfactory and could be 'editably' embeddable in Word, I decided to keep it for the finished version. But I found that all the text appeared as italic when all the fonts were deactivated in my computer. Has anyone experienced anything similar? (I was using Windows XP.)
Michael,

Your story reminds me of something that happened to me a long time ago. As a test of font embedding , I
  1. Embedded a family of four installably embeddable fonts in an Office document
  2. Moved all these fonts out of my font folder after closing the test document
  3. Reopened the test document to see whether the embedded fonts would be reinstalled
I could never get my system to install more than one font from the family. My guess (and it is only a guess) is that as soon as Word installed one member of the family, Windows substituted that member for the others that were missing, thereby eliminating the signal to extract the other embedded fonts.

Is the italic font the first one that occurs in your document? If so, try using one of the other fonts first. If that font becomes the single one displayed, my theory may be correct.

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Old 02-04-2007, 11:10 AM   #6
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Gerry:

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I could never get my system to install more than one font from the family
Interesting: but I have no difficulty in embedding several fonts in a Word 2003 document, providing they are TrueType fonts and are allowed to be embedded.

Quote:
Is the italic font the first one that occurs in your document?
No, it's not and though italic is used for the occasional word in the text (but as overrides from regular), the first character encountered is in the title, and that's bold (but rendered as bold italic). In fact, all you see is either italic or bold italic, but the original font names are shown, viz regular or bold.

I also had the option 'do not embed common system fonts' (which is normally switched on) set to 'off'.

I did suspect that my copy of Word had become damaged, but after a 'repair' there was no change.

   
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Old 02-08-2007, 10:36 AM   #7
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I did suspect that my copy of Word had become damaged, but after a 'repair' there was no change
I've since tested Cambria for embedding in Word, and the embedded Cambria regular turned up as Cambria Math. Either my copy of Word 2003 has gone wrong or the fonts purloined from Microsoft Reader are all bewitched. Soon I'll be able to test that, for I've ordered Word 12 (2007), which I believe has Microsoft's new fonts too.

   
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Old 02-08-2007, 07:29 PM   #8
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Calibri, Candara, Cambria, Cambria Math .. yep. All included with Office 12.

   
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Old 02-09-2007, 07:29 AM   #9
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Steve:

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yep. All included with Office 12
Thanks for the confirmation. Incidentally, Word's embedding Cambria Math instead of Cambria regular is particularly weird, as C. Math was activated when I did the embedding, but of course was shown as a separate font by Word.

   
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Old 02-09-2007, 03:28 PM   #10
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This is indeed odd.

I set one line of text in Word 2007 and set it as Cambria.
Saved the document with fonts embedded, Word 97-2003 format.
Opened (on a different computer with none of the new fonts and no Office 2007 installed).

Word says the font is Cambria and the Substitute Fonts button says "My work on this planet is done, nothing missing, leave me alone". So apparently Cambria's embedded. Fine.

Put the cursor at the end of the line, hit Enter then type some more text, select it and choose Clear Formatting and it turns into .... Calibri.

Apparently the font gets embedded as the result of being part of Normal style or some such, whether it's used or not.

And the one-line file is well over a megabyte in size.

   
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