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Old 11-16-2006, 01:59 PM   #1
PeterArnel
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Default GraCol

Is any printer in the US looking at GraCol at the moment
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Old 11-18-2006, 03:48 PM   #2
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This is really important - does anyone on ntheis site know what GraCol is
peter
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:42 AM   #3
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General Recommendations for Applications in Offset Lithography. Now in its seventh edition. Peter, haven't we covered this ground before?

Very best regards,
Todd
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Old 11-20-2006, 11:10 AM   #4
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At the moment it looks like 23 printers have been GRACol qualified. We have budget money earmarked for GRACol qualification and proof certification for early 2007. I have done some preliminary work using the G7 methods and the IDEALink Curve software with our Epson 9800 and the results were encouraging.

Very best regards,
Todd
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Old 11-20-2006, 12:50 PM   #5
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Todd thats interesting - the leader of the US delegation on the ISO Committee has distance the US using these words
1. The technique has not been objectively tested (to the satisfaction
of USTAG).

2. There are aspects of the technique that seem to lack a sound
scientific basis.
I will be interseted to hear how u get on
Peter
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Old 11-20-2006, 01:26 PM   #6
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Peter, from what I can gather from the minutes of the last GRACol conference call, it looks like at sometime in the near future agreement will be reached.
Those who wish to use channel based TVI(FOGRA) will be able to do so, and those who wish to use the Neutral Print Density Curve(G7) will be able to do so. The ISO 12647-2 Standard will be amended to include inherent CtP curves discovered by GRACol and verified by FOGRA. At last all parties involved will be in agreement that ISO 12647-2 needed to be updated to reflect the use of CtP as opposed to film based plate making no matter how one arrives at the specification. Photoshop will ship with new updated profiles and all will be at peace in the printing world. I need to add that the objective testing will be satisfied as more US printers become GRACol qualified, and anyone who thinks the technique lacks sound scientific basis needs to remove the blinders and let change happen!

Very best regards,
Todd
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:35 PM   #7
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include inherent CtP curves discovered by GRACol we havent heard of this - can you explain what it means
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:49 PM   #8
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Todd I have no axe to grind - I carried out the GraCol/ Forgra tests in the UK to understand what was going on. In reality we saw both cutting a dot gain curve on the ctp to match something - GraCol to match a grey balance and Fogra to a defined value. But both cut the dot back . GRaCol needed more dot gain to get the US effect and Fogra cut it back to get the European effect. As far as I am concerned - if we all agreed on a dot gain curve, the profile couild take care of how we like the images to look - but we would all print the CMYK logos the same.
Peter
Also as a sheet fed B2 printer I have to have colour bars at the back of sheet and sheet stretch causes real problem with grey balance
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Old 11-21-2006, 05:59 AM   #9
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Peter,
My remarks at the end of my last post were directed at the US ISO delegate.
GRACol 7 has been based on 'shared appearence' from the start. I believe from what I have read that middle ground has been struck and there seems to be, finally, some agreement between GRACol 7 and FOGRA. I believe a new data set and profiles built from this data will eventually be accepted and recognized by all parties, then released for practical use. At some point we will have a worldwide standard that all of our printing will be compared to, at least until 2015(when digital printing overtakes traditional offset!)
The G7 v6 'How To' does state that maintaining cross-sheet gray balance is the biggest challenge to having an acceptable pressrun. I will post when we have gone through the qualification process and let you know if I think it was a worthwhile venture or not.

Very best regards,
Todd
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:04 AM   #10
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I believe they are referring to the fact that ISO 12647-2 was established before CtP systems were existant or the norm. We both know there are inherent differences between CtP and film based plates, and these differences were both noted by GRAcol and FOGRA.

Very best regards,
Todd
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