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Old 10-04-2006, 06:04 PM   #1
Robin Springall
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Default InDesign overprinting

You know these little artworking jobbies that should only take 15 minutes to fix but actually take a couple of hours? It's 2am and I've only just got home because it took absolutely yonks to work out. You probably all know it anyway, but in case you don't, here's the score:

InDesign will only let you set an object to overprint if it's in the top layer.

There. That was easy, wasn't it?

Night night
zzzzzzz

   
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Old 10-05-2006, 08:28 AM   #2
Michael Rowley
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Robin:

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InDesign will only let you set an object to overprint if it's in the top layer
Not being a printer, I thought that was what was meant by 'over'-printing.

   
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Old 10-05-2006, 10:57 AM   #3
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There's no reason why you shouldn't have parts of the document in one layer, and other bits in a different one. This client had cutter guides in the top layer, and artwork under that; even with the cutter layer made invisible, the overprinting wouldn't work.

   
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Old 10-06-2006, 06:02 AM   #4
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Over-printing, to a printer, means that the black ink will print over the colored inks, rather than knocking out the colored inks (leaving a blank space where black will go). This makes trapping unnecessary and registration less of a pain. But it can result in odd looking solids, depending on the colors underlying the black.
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Old 10-06-2006, 07:22 AM   #5
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Absolutely silly that ID doesn't do overprints properly. I agree with you. What's Adobe thinking??

I can easily picture projects with multiple versions all in the same layout. Which version gets printed is determined by which layer(s) are turned on and off.

Say you have product spec sheets for a product that sells in one country under one of your company's brand names and in another
region under a different one. (One of those cases here in the States is Hellman's Mayonnaise and Best Foods Mayonnaise -- same parent company, same mayo, different brand name depending on where you are.) You need the same layout bits, but corporate contact info and branding are set up on separate layers for toggling on/off. You could duplicate more items (the bits that must overprint with black) in the layout to guarantee the overprint, but you really shouldn't have to duplicate anything except the exact bits that change from version to version.

   
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Old 10-06-2006, 08:19 AM   #6
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Don:

Quote:
But it can result in odd looking solids, depending on the colors underlying the black.
Surely, it shouldn't do, for black printing ink should be in a thickness sufficient to hide white (e.g. unprinted paper); a fortiori, it should hide a colour.

   
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Old 10-06-2006, 08:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rowley View Post
Don:



Surely, it shouldn't do, for black printing ink should be in a thickness sufficient to hide white (e.g. unprinted paper); a fortiori, it should hide a colour.
If the inks are opaque, but standard printing inks are not, so colors below the black will affect it. In fact that's the idea behind "rich black."

   
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Old 10-06-2006, 11:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Springall View Post
You know these little artworking jobbies that should only take 15 minutes to fix but actually take a couple of hours? It's 2am and I've only just got home because it took absolutely yonks to work out. You probably all know it anyway, but in case you don't, here's the score:

InDesign will only let you set an object to overprint if it's in the top layer.

There. That was easy, wasn't it?

Night night
zzzzzzz
I sent this to Anne-Marie Concepcion, who some of you know, with a question. Here's her reply:

>Is this so? Does everyone know this? Etc.

um, no, it's not true. I'm not sure what nightmare he might have gone
through (sure sounds bad!) to arrive at this conclusion; but I just
confirmed that you can set any object to overprint regardless of what
layer it's on.

The only way to see the effects of overprinting in ID is to turn on
View > Overprint Preview (and ditto for Acrobat if you're proofing a
PDF with live transparency.) Maybe that was the problem?

I'm feeling for the guy; I've been there. But I'm not sure how/why he
got this idea.

AM
--
==============================================
Anne-Marie "HerGeekness" Concepcion, Fearless Leader
Seneca Design & Training | http://www.senecadesign.com/

Co-host of the InDesignSecrets podcast, with David Blatner
The Blog. The Podcast. http://www.indesignsecrets.com/
==============================================
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Old 10-06-2006, 01:01 PM   #9
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Elyse:

Quote:
If the inks are opaque, but standard printing inks are not, so colors below the black will affect it. In fact that's the idea behind "rich black."
Well, 'rich black' is less black than 'plain black'; but I should have thought that the ink used for overprinting would be meant to be plain black, which is not difficult to achieve with offset or letterpress inks, which are fairly heavily loaded; flexographic and gravure inks are another matter, I imagine.

   
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Old 10-06-2006, 01:18 PM   #10
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You "can" see through the black ink used in CMYK printing, Michael. As Elyse notes, this is how you get warm and cool rich blacks. And if you overprint black onto a shape, you can often make the shape out underneath. It is not pronounced, but it is noticeable.
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