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Old 09-17-2006, 05:14 PM   #11
bmann
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How come, if you know?
Nah, I'm just kidding. I prefer the PC because it's what I'm most familiar with and it's what nearly everyone uses outside of dtp and graphics. If everything stayed on one platform then there would be fewer problems, especially with fonts and platform encoding when not in a unicode program.
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Old 09-17-2006, 06:26 PM   #12
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Ho! It is not a deficiency of the Mac. Windows had no f-ligatures; the Mac did. Typographically speaking, ligs are more useful than a couple of fractions.

(Of course, if you use any f-ligs, you really need all 5 — ff, ffi, ffl, fi, fl — rather than merely the fi and fl — but realize that the Mac was the first desktop computer to attempt any typographic niceties, and that was all there was room for.)

Then, when the PC finally got typographically informed, they decided to have three fractions rather than 2 ligs (and something else I cannot remember). But it is as inane to have 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 (but not 1/3, 1/8, et al) as to have only a couple of ligs.

So please do not suggest there is a Mac deficiency without recognizing the PC deficiency.

Or, better yet, stop thinking in terms of deficiencies at all.
Ah I didn't see this post before. I see where you're coming from. I don't call myself a real desktop publisher or graphic designer since I do not create any documents. My main job is handling other peoples' documents, extracting and replacing the text in a different language and then giving the file back with the text fitted. I don't have much if any time for tweaking type, most documents arrive on my desk and leave within a day or two. My main challenge is compatibility, as you may have noticed in most of my threads. As we go into the future and everybody catches up with unicode and opentype my job will hopefully become cake. Until then I suppose I'll be griping about every little incompatibility and snag along the way.
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:05 PM   #13
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Ho! It is not a deficiency of the Mac.
I agree, though, I would rather have ligatures than fractions.

Doesn't it seem like the software could make adjustments to the characters automatically rather than replacing them with a new character (the ligature)?
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Old 09-18-2006, 04:45 AM   #14
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Doesn't it seem like the software could make adjustments to the characters automatically rather than replacing them with a new character (the ligature)?
While a program could see 1 then / then 2, it could make a change. Word does so, creating different fractions. However, to do it correctly (that is, to place a correct alternate character in this position) there would have to be that character existing in the font, and that is the problem you have already seen.

Unicode solves all, but when you are using older software like Quark, you cannot access this.
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:23 AM   #15
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Windows had no f-ligatures
Neither Windows nor the Mac OS 'have' ligatures: they belong to the font, and no Type 1 PS font or TT font lacks either fi or fl lgatures. The difference between Windows and the Mac is that the Mac included them in the characters that could be got at from the keyboard and Windows didn't. However, since Windows 2000 (Win NT5), the fi and fl ligatures are available, as are any of the standard ligatures (or non-standard ones) found in better fonts.

There are differences too in some of the Greek characters available in early Macs and early Windows. The Mac obviously had students more in mind. Possibly someone on the Windows side possibly had farthings, halfpennies, and three-farthings more in mind: a descendant of the nation of shopkeepers, perhaps?

   
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:27 AM   #16
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when you are using older software like Quark
Unicode is, I think, about ten years' old. Didn't Quark think it important?

   
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:30 AM   #17
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I use FrameMaker 7.2 on PC and it does recognize unicode when properly imported
Oh, does it? I gave up updating FrameMaker after v. 7.1; perhaps I should have persevered.

   
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:32 AM   #18
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As we go into the future and everybody catches up with unicode and opentype my job will hopefully become cake.
Did you know that is a sort of curse? Just say, “Oh, that [whatever] will be a piece of cake!” and it instantly becomes the worst [whatever] you’ve ever seen.

Never, ever say that. Your life will not be worth living!

   
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:35 AM   #19
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Unicode is, I think, about ten years' old. Didn't Quark think it important?
No idea about what Quark may have thought, but do you really think software developers instantly decided which new standards or discoveries would be truly important and then implemented them at once?

What software today supports unicode — not necessarily fully, but to a practical extent? How many users have unicode fonts?

   
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:36 AM   #20
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Neither Windows nor the Mac OS 'have' ligatures
True. They have standard character sets and characters that may be in fonts but outside that range are not accessible, at least not from the keyboard.

   
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