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Old 03-20-2006, 04:10 PM   #1
Robin Springall
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Default Colour: management or manglement?

This is just bonkers: a flattened tiff looked different and printed out differently when placed in Illustrator CS2. By "different" I means when compared to being viewed on the same monitor and printed out on the same printer but from Photoshop. Both CS2 Mac.

The tiff had the standard Euroscale Coated v2 colour profile embedded, and both Photoshop and Illustrator were set up to that same working space, but the image went more yellow after being chucked into Frustrator. Oh, and it was the same whether I embedded it or linked it.

In the end I saved a copy of the tiff with no colour profile, turned off colour management in Illustrator, and it then looked and printed fine.
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:55 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Springall
This is just bonkers: a flattened tiff looked different and printed out differently when placed in Illustrator CS2. By "different" I means when compared to being viewed on the same monitor and printed out on the same printer but from Photoshop. Both CS2 Mac.

The tiff had the standard Euroscale Coated v2 colour profile embedded, and both Photoshop and Illustrator were set up to that same working space, but the image went more yellow after being chucked into Frustrator. Oh, and it was the same whether I embedded it or linked it.

In the end I saved a copy of the tiff with no colour profile, turned off colour management in Illustrator, and it then looked and printed fine.
I do wish I could offer advice on colour management -- because that would probably mean I understood it myself. I've often found that the best colour is obtained by turning colour management off -- except for the times when it isn't.

   
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Old 03-21-2006, 07:55 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Mike
I do wish I could offer advice on colour management -- because that would probably mean I understood it myself. I've often found that the best colour is obtained by turning colour management off -- except for the times when it isn't.
You've hit the nail on the head there. How many years of this and none of the solutions are?

   
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:04 PM   #4
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Why is Illustrator always odd...'-}}

I've read in other forums that turning off cm in Illo is the way to go but it really makes no sense that you have to do that given you are using the CS2 version...

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Old 03-21-2006, 01:42 PM   #5
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I'm starting to go (just mentally, for now) down the road of removing all colour profiles in our Adobe workflow. Just a thought.

My firm doesn't use colour manglement in Quark or Freehand, and CorelDraw has its own system which seems to work OK. The whole Adobe suite has a frightfully sophisticated CMM which seems good in theory, though we do experience loads of unexpected colour variations. We've worked out that if different docs in the same job have the same CMYK values but look different, there's a colour profile problem! Then what should we do about it?

In two recent CMYK cases (PC InDesign CS2), the CD booklet and inlay artwork was OK but the CD body looked way too red. I checked the tiffs from each doc in Photoshop, and the CMYK values were all the same. The tiffs used as part of the booklet and inlay were Euroscale Coated v2, but the CD body had a really odd ICC profile that I can't remember: converting it to Euroscale made no difference, and I could only get the three docs to match up by saving the tiffs with no profile, and setting ID to ignore incoming profiles. I didn't actually turn off colour management in ID, nor in Aggrobrat, so the press PDFs had the Euroscale Coated v2 profile that our printers seem to want, and the jobs printed fine (phew!)

As I said: nightmare.
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Old 03-21-2006, 01:59 PM   #6
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My boy - oh have a story to tell - and if only u had read what I sent u :-)
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Old 03-21-2006, 02:00 PM   #7
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Robin....are your monitors calibrated???

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Old 03-21-2006, 02:04 PM   #8
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Robin
I tease ( a bit ) - cant u book your self out for half a day and come down to Newbury - its not far - and see us ( we do put CD work out) They do a real bacon sandwich in the van across the road
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Springall
This is just bonkers: a flattened tiff looked different and printed out differently when placed in Illustrator CS2. By "different" I means when compared to being viewed on the same monitor and printed out on the same printer but from Photoshop. Both CS2 Mac.
Robin, in a CMYK workflow the color mangement has already happened when you converted to CMYK using (presumably) the Euroscale profile in PS. Despite conventional wisdom, you don't need or want to embed a profile unless there needs to be further conversions (CMYK-to-CMYK) down the road, which you clearly don't want.

If the color is changing when you place a tagged file in ID then there is a profile conflict somewhere. Your ID CMYK working space might be the same Euroscale profile, but the document could have a different profile assigned (Edit>Assign Profiles) and that would override the working space. You could also look at your ID Proofing Setup, which would have to be set to Document CMYK to prevent a color shift.

Your solution of removing the embedded tags is in fact the way to go. In that case you still get a color managed preview of the color in ID, because the document's profile in ID (Euroscale in your case) drives the conversion of CMYK to RGB for an accurate display of both the ID and PS color.

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Old 03-22-2006, 11:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Day
Robin, in a CMYK workflow the color mangement has already happened when you converted to CMYK using (presumably) the Euroscale profile in PS. Despite conventional wisdom, you don't need or want to embed a profile unless there needs to be further conversions (CMYK-to-CMYK) down the road, which you clearly don't want.
Hello Rob, welcome to the DTP Forum! Yes, I'm coming round more and more to the idea that we should discard all colour profiles from images when importing them into the layout program. I might even try turning off colour management completely in the CS2 suite apart from Aggro-- sorry, Acrobat. Possibly, but not sure.

Saint Peter of Arnel <gg> here is bang up-to-date and has adopted the new Europe ISO Coated FOGRA27 working space but both our printers want to stay with Euroscale Coated v2, so I guess our PDFs have to have the ECv2 profile.
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