DTP


 
Lively discussions on the graphic arts and publishing — in print or on the web


Go Back   Desktop Publishing Forum > General Discussions > Fonts & Typography

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-05-2005, 05:05 PM   #1
ktinkel
Founding Sysop
 
ktinkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In Connecticut, on the Housatonic River near its mouth at Long Island Sound.
Posts: 11,189
Default End of Type 1 support?

A comment from Thomas Phinney’s blog, Typlography:
Adobe & Our Customers:

So, looking at this situation, the main thing Adobe sees as a type foundry is if we keep on selling Type 1 fonts, starting in a year or two there will be a bunch of applications that won't support them, at least on Windows. At the same time, we've been moving away from Type 1 sales for many years.

So our current plan is that no later than when Windows Vista ships (late 2006?), Adobe will stop retail licensing of Type 1 fonts for Mac and Windows. This is subject to review and change based on market conditions, but it's our current best estimate.
What seems most interesting to me is that when Windows upgrades its OS, Adobe will stop selling Type 1 fonts even on the Mac. Since most commercial type is still set on Macs, this is odd, if not absolutely perverse. (And the rest is set by Windows users, also with Type 1 fonts.)

Wonder where Adobe would be today if it had not the shoulders of loyal graphic designers and typographers to ride upon?

[Oh, shut up, Kathleen!] <g>

   
__________________
[SIZE=2][COLOR=LemonChiffon]::[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Last edited by ktinkel; 11-05-2005 at 05:36 PM.
ktinkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2005, 06:23 PM   #2
Stephen Owades
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Posts: 179
Default

Why does this bother you? Any reasonably-modern Mac or PC can use "type 1 flavored" OpenType fonts, and it seems reasonable for Adobe to sell their type in that format. The only advantage I can see for traditional type 1 fonts on the Mac is the availability of bitmapped screen fonts in several sizes, and with today's on-screen type rendering and higher-res screens that's not much of an issue. In many situations (such as with recent Adobe applications), you're already seeing the outline font rendered on-screen, anyway.

Notice that Mr. Phinney made it clear that there's no intent to abandon support for traditional type 1 fonts in Adobe applications. If Apple or Microsoft choose to do so, that's another matter, but it's not within Adobe's control. And transitioning new type sales over to OpenType seems like a good strategy for Adobe in any case.

There's no reason for non-Pro OpenType fonts to be more complicated or expensive than their type 1 equivalents. And one can hope for more of the type families that presently require expert sets and other kludges to access true small caps, old-style figures, and special ligatures to become available in OpenType Pro form. (I'm hoping for Eric Spiekermann to do this with Meta one of these days.)

Actually, I'm one of the few people who may have trouble with this transition, since the pagination program that I wrote many years ago and use regularly for directory typesetting is not yet able to take advantage of extended character sets via Unicode. I'll have to bite the bullet and incorporate support for that one of these days.
Stephen Owades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2005, 12:40 AM   #3
Ian Petersen
Staff
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 235
Default

I think that stopping selling T1s coincidentally with Windows Vista's release is simply a case of 'as good a time as any'. There's no need to read more into it than that. I wouldn't be surprised if Mac OS-XI drops native support for T1s as well, whenever it appears. Type-1 is quite simply obsolete and the sooner we can have purely Unicode/OpenType workflows the better.

   
__________________
Ian
Ian Petersen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2005, 06:54 AM   #4
Michael Rowley
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ipswich (the one in England)
Posts: 5,105
Default

Ian:

Type-1 is quite simply obsolete

Surely Type 1 uses the same outline code as OTF fonts, where the difference between them and OT TT fonts is only the outline code. Windows & Mac OS 10 can use OTF (and Type 1) fonts now, & it's not likely to change with Vista.

Adobe would be mad to sell both T1 and OTF versions of its fonts once OTF or OT-TT fonts become the norm, which now seems certain. And the 'Pro' fonts seem to have caught on: many type producers (we really must stop calling them 'foundries') have started selling them.

   
__________________
Michael
Michael Rowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2005, 06:55 AM   #5
ktinkel
Founding Sysop
 
ktinkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In Connecticut, on the Housatonic River near its mouth at Long Island Sound.
Posts: 11,189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Owades
Why does this bother you?
I do not look forward to buying new fonts, for one thing. If things play out as you and Ian suggest (and as the wind is blowing), I can imagine a time fairly soon when people who have a large investment in Type 1 fonts will be faced with choosing between sticking with older computers and old applications or replacing expensive font libraries.

For another, I do not gain much with OpenType fonts. Given my druthers, I would just as soon have Type 1s, even with the need for expert sets. (Actually, I would much rather be able to use multiple master fonts than any other format, but I realize that is a forlorn hope.) I certainly do not want to have to buy OT versions of older T1s when the only change is the format.

Where is that tool Adobe once said would be available for converting T1 fonts to OT? That at least would let typographers and others retain their libraries — which represent not only money but time spent modifying kern pairs and otherwise adapting the fonts for use.

I recognize that when DTP came along, existing typesetters were driven to adapt or go out of business, but in that case the equipment and software was limping (most of the systems I knew were still based on CP/M). We are far from being in that state today — obsolescence is being forced by technological changes designed primarily to allow vendors to extend their markets.

Pardon me if that makes me grumpy.

   
__________________
[SIZE=2][COLOR=LemonChiffon]::[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ktinkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2005, 07:04 AM   #6
Michael Rowley
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ipswich (the one in England)
Posts: 5,105
Default

KT:

Where is that tool Adobe once said would be available for converting T1 fonts to OT?

At least one (TransType) was discussed in this forum not so long ago, though it didn't appear to excite your interest. It works too.

   
__________________
Michael
Michael Rowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2005, 08:31 AM   #7
ktinkel
Founding Sysop
 
ktinkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In Connecticut, on the Housatonic River near its mouth at Long Island Sound.
Posts: 11,189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rowley
At least one (TransType) was discussed in this forum not so long ago, though it didn't appear to excite your interest. It works too.
I was thinking of one that Adobe said it would offer when it was first talking about OpenType.

TransType is from FontLab, right? I should take a look. Thanks.

   
__________________
[SIZE=2][COLOR=LemonChiffon]::[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ktinkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2005, 09:17 AM   #8
Ian Petersen
Staff
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 235
Default

It's not the outlines that are the problem, though. It's the 'package' the outlines are in, i.e. the Type-1 format itself which, amongst other limitations, doesn't support more than 256 characters in one font. That's what makes T1 obsolete: no Unicode and no cross-platform capability. A lot of people are beginning to need those capabilities ...

In these forums, we tend to concentrate on the fine (latin) typographic features of OpenType - the neato alternate characters, smart ligatures, small caps and oldstyle figures - but these features are really just icing on the cake. For a large part of the world's population, if not the majority, Unicode and OpenType are essential just to be able use a computer in their own language and, perhaps even more importantly, communicate easily with other computers in other countries and other platforms.

   
__________________
Ian
Ian Petersen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2005, 09:41 AM   #9
Ian Petersen
Staff
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 235
Default

Isn't this just the same complaint we all utter, once in a while, when faced with yet another software upgrade? And the answer is pretty much the same, too: No one is forcing you to upgrade! Your current library of Type-1s will continue to work fine on your current system and in your current software for years to come. And I'm willing to bet the type of software we use here - mid to high-end DTP applications - will continue to work with T1s for at least another decade or so.

Quote:
Where is that tool Adobe once said would be available for converting T1 fonts to OT?
I think they chickened out when considering the potential support nightmare. They chose to convert their own library themselves. But they do give away for free their own OpenType production tools in the form of the OT Development Kit. The same tool that is integrated into FontLab if you want a nice interface on it. <g> FontLab also do a basic 1 to 1 T1 > OT converter, I think, if you don't want or need to mess with FontLab itself or the OTDK.

   
__________________
Ian
Ian Petersen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2005, 11:59 AM   #10
Michael Rowley
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ipswich (the one in England)
Posts: 5,105
Default

Ian:

amongst other limitations, doesn't support more than 256 characters in one font

It's a fallacy that an every OT font necessarily has more than 256 characters or even OT features, but most of the fonts Microsoft labels 'OT' do at least have Greek, Cyrrilic, and Arabic glyphs; and so, of course do the OTF fonts that Adobe has produced.

I think applications which are geared solely to the system of only 256 glyphs per 'page' are doomed; FrameMaker is one such application. Although even I have got several 'expert' fonts, it already annoys me to have to use them when I also have the corresponding OTF Pro fonts.

One thing KT has not mentioned is that many T1 (and TT) fonts compare badly with metal types, although they had not the constraints of people designing fonts for Linotype or Monotype. A lot of fonts won't be missed!

   
__________________
Michael
Michael Rowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Medieval Tech Support Susie The Corner Pub 8 02-21-2007 02:07 PM
MS Avalon: No Type 1 support? ktinkel Fonts & Typography 14 03-05-2006 06:11 PM
from moveable type to moving type? Sayling Fonts & Typography 1 10-04-2005 01:26 PM
Moral Support Please michelen The Corner Pub 13 04-22-2005 06:54 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Contents copyright 2004–2014 Desktop Publishing Forum and its members.