DTP


 
Lively discussions on the graphic arts and publishing — in print or on the web


Go Back   Desktop Publishing Forum > General Discussions > Print Design

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-05-2005, 11:22 AM   #1
Michael Rowley
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ipswich (the one in England)
Posts: 5,105
Default Plan for a magazine grid

I'm trying to plan a grid for a magazine in A4 format. The dimensions are all in millimetres (except for the type sizes, which are in points). The grid has 72 rectangles (6 × 12), each 25 mm wide, 15 mm deep; these are separated by five 5-mm vertical strips and eleven horizontal 6-mm strips.

The idea is to be able to fit in any illustration (as long as it's rectangular), either in portrait or landscape form. The text (11.5 pt Minion Pro leaded to 5 mm or 9 pt leaded to 4 mm) will be in two or three columns.

How well would these dimensions suit the commoner sizes of photograph? You can work out the dimensions: for instance, a quarter page illustration would be 85 mm × 120 mm.

The print area would be 185 mm × 246 mm, leaving margins 12 mm, 20 mm, 23 mm, & 31 mm, going clockwise from the inside margin.

   
__________________
Michael
Michael Rowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 11:57 AM   #2
ktinkel
Founding Sysop
 
ktinkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In Connecticut, on the Housatonic River near its mouth at Long Island Sound.
Posts: 11,189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rowley
I'm trying to plan a grid for a magazine in A4 format. The dimensions are all in millimetres (except for the type sizes, which are in points). The grid has 72 rectangles (6 × 12), each 25 mm wide, 15 mm deep; these are separated by five 5-mm vertical strips and eleven horizontal 6-mm strips.

The idea is to be able to fit in any illustration (as long as it's rectangular), either in portrait or landscape form. The text (11.5 pt Minion Pro leaded to 5 mm or 9 pt leaded to 4 mm) will be in two or three columns.

How well would these dimensions suit the commoner sizes of photograph? You can work out the dimensions: for instance, a quarter page illustration would be 85 mm × 120 mm.

The print area would be 185 mm × 246 mm, leaving margins 12 mm, 20 mm, 23 mm, & 31 mm, going clockwise from the inside margin.
I am dizzy from the mixed-measurement units. But I guess you plan to use 11.5 pt Minion on 12.5 pt leading (or thereabouts)? (I have never heard of not using points to describe the leaded value, but live and learn I guess!).

Anyway, about the photos: Do you not not intend to do any cropping? Printed halftones can be any size or shape, once cropped and sized for the layout. The virtue of a grid is that you can accommodate anything, just using some grid boundary for edges. It is usually more interesting to vary the shapes and sizes, and unless you are printing something rigidly defined — a picture of a painting, say — some degree of cropping is often necessary.

And it makes the pages more lively and ultimately more readable if you occasionally violate the grid (when it makes sense). An important (and very good) photo might bleed off on one or more edges of the page, for example.

The main consideration for a magazine is usually to accommodate standard ad sizes — assuming you expect to have them. Your page grid will have to have those areas allowed for as well, as a 1/3 vertical ad (for an example) should have the same allocation on any page where one might appear.

Hope I’m not missing your point here.

   
__________________
[SIZE=2][COLOR=LemonChiffon]::[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ktinkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 12:52 PM   #3
Michael Rowley
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ipswich (the one in England)
Posts: 5,105
Default

KT:

I am dizzy from the mixed-measurement units

The only measurement that is not SI is the type size, which I have to give in points because the people using the layout will be using Word primarily, which allows milimetre for horizontal measurements (and for margins) but will not accept them for type sizes; for line spacing it allows you to give them in millimetres, but converts them to point sizes when you're not looking. For your information (and that of any US-American), the type is 11.5/14.2 points. That line spacing gives 49 lines a column.

Do you not not intend to do any cropping?

Certainly photos will generally need cropping, first to make them fit (on the Procrustean principle) and second to make the composition better. But it is best if the grid will accommodate them approximately as to shape, isn't it?

Yes, I realize that a grid can't be inviolate, but I worked for years to a grid (designed by professionals), and found that it helps no end. I can't 'borrow' it, as it was in Cicero and Didot points, although the print area was about the same as I envisage.

The main consideration for a magazine is usually to accommodate standard ad sizes

That's not a consideration here: the magazine has only a print run of about 250 copies!

If I am responsible for setting the articles, which are mostly not illustrated, I shall probably use FrameMaker for the layout. Eventually, we plan to cut out the prrinting altogether and distribute the magazine by e-mail as a PDF. It would be best to print from a PDF too, but I don't know what the printing arrangements are.

   
__________________
Michael
Michael Rowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 01:19 PM   #4
ktinkel
Founding Sysop
 
ktinkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In Connecticut, on the Housatonic River near its mouth at Long Island Sound.
Posts: 11,189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rowley
Certainly photos will generally need cropping, first to make them fit (on the Procrustean principle) and second to make the composition better. But it is best if the grid will accommodate them approximately as to shape, isn't it?
It depends on the photos. I have had to get head shots out of group pictures at times; the head shot ended up a square or vertical rectangle — the original very likely horizontal. And I have often cut squares out of rectangles for various compositional reasons; or taken a vertical slice out of a horizontal (or vice-versa).

These are design and quality issues, but anything goes in my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rowley
Yes, I realize that a grid can't be inviolate, but I worked for years to a grid (designed by professionals), and found that it helps no end.
Then stick with it. I prefer a grid for a magazine myself.

   
__________________
[SIZE=2][COLOR=LemonChiffon]::[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ktinkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005, 04:40 PM   #5
donmcc
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sarnia, Canada
Posts: 1,122
Default

Michael

How does the format fit with standardized advertising units? I assume that they are in use over there, as they now are here. If you get agency ads, they will tend to be built to those dimensions, and nothing looks odder (well, actualy a lot of things do) than an advert with white space at the sides or top/bottom because it would not fit into the shape.

Don McCahill

PS: Also, like KT metric is not my strong suit. You might want to post a prototype page (or a document with several pages) in PDF, where we can all make comments and suggestions.
donmcc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2005, 08:00 AM   #6
Michael Rowley
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ipswich (the one in England)
Posts: 5,105
Default

Don:

How does the format fit with standardized advertising units?

As I said to KT, I am not concerned with advertising, because we haven't got any: there's not much demand for advertisements in a quarterly publication that has a print run of only 250.

But it's theoretically an interesting point, because I've never heard of 'advertising units' (that's no surprise), nor have I ever seen a.u. mentioned in any discussion of layout grids for books or newspapers. How does that work, and can you give examples of the units? Perhaps they haven't caught on in the UK, but considering that many advertisements are international, and magazine formats vary so widely, how would the system work?

Units: actually, as I all the measurements are in the same units, what they are given in is immaterial. A rectangle 25 mm × 15 mm won't change it's shape by describing it as 0.98 in × 0.59 in. But I'll make drawings as soon as I've decided the proposed layout for the front cover and make a PDF from them.

I think the cover should not have a photograph, since we're not trying to sell the magazine from newsstands. But it needs something, for A4 (210 mm × 297 mm) leaves an awful lot of space. The title is Netzblatt by the way, and should really be in German blackletter of some sort; can anyone suggest a free blackletter font?

   
__________________
Michael
Michael Rowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2005, 08:18 AM   #7
ktinkel
Founding Sysop
 
ktinkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In Connecticut, on the Housatonic River near its mouth at Long Island Sound.
Posts: 11,189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rowley
I think the cover should not have a photograph, since we're not trying to sell the magazine from newsstands. But it needs something, for A4 (210 mm × 297 mm) leaves an awful lot of space.
If it is a text-based magazine, it can be interesting to begin the major or theme article on the cover in large type.

Even though you are not competing for attention on a newsstand, the use of relevant cover art can help make the publication seem worth opening up. I like to crop out bits of old linecuts (often from Dover books) as illustrations to highlight the topic for the cover.

I assume the magazine (including the cover) will be printed in a single color? You can always add some textural interest by using shades of grey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rowley
The title is Netzblatt by the way, and should really be in German blackletter of some sort; can anyone suggest a free blackletter font?
Check out the “Blackletter Revival” section of TypeOasis. Some are shareware, others free — and it is very fine-looking collection of schwabacher, fraktur, gotisch, and other broken faces.

The Deutscher Schmuck font at that site has some lovely typographic ornaments that are compatible with blackletter type and German themes.

   
__________________
[SIZE=2][COLOR=LemonChiffon]::[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ktinkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2005, 08:41 AM   #8
donmcc
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sarnia, Canada
Posts: 1,122
Default

My info on MAU (modular advertising units) comes from CARD (Canadian Advertising Rates and Data). This is the pricebook of all advertising rates in Canadian publications, outdoor, broadcast and other ad venues. The American version is called Standard Rates and Data (I think). I suspect there will be a UK version of the same in your public library ... if so, you should take a look through it.

Basically, it specifies the sizes of about 50 or so modular ads (ones that wil fit together on a standard page nicely.)

Don McCahill
donmcc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2005, 12:51 PM   #9
Michael Rowley
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ipswich (the one in England)
Posts: 5,105
Default

KT:

it can be interesting to begin the major or theme article on the cover in large type

That's an interesting suggestion, and we'll bear that possibility in mind.

I like to crop out bits of old linecuts

I like woodcuts and linocuts, and that's another suggestion that needs to be considered.

If we go for e-mail distribution, colour won't be a problem, but we can't afford colour printing, except possibly for the odd bit of colour for the title, say. I quite like the idea of 'Netzblatt' in crimson Fraktur.

Tha link you gave had some quite nice examples of German blackletter, not all of them Fraktur. I've downloaded five fonts to play with; I like Weiss-Fraktur best, I think, but I'm not sure it's robust enough for use at display size: the Bayreuth may be better. And yes, the Deutscher Smuck may come in useful.

   
__________________
Michael
Michael Rowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2005, 12:58 PM   #10
Michael Rowley
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ipswich (the one in England)
Posts: 5,105
Default

Don:

Now you mention 'Standard Rates' my memory is beginning to stir! But we are not interested in advertisements (we might be, if there was money in it). The journal of the our parent association does have targeted advertisements, which are quite expensive, but they're mostly for the inside and outside of the back cover.

   
__________________
Michael
Michael Rowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adobe Magazine Andrew B. General Publishing Topics 1 12-11-2006 05:19 PM
Magazine design marlene Print Design 24 06-29-2006 10:52 AM
what to consider in Magazine Design Maracas Print Design 1 06-13-2006 05:46 AM
Magazine fallout iamback Print Production & Automation 15 05-20-2006 01:31 PM
Free X-Ray magazine PDF ktinkel General Publishing Topics 2 04-09-2005 05:52 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Contents copyright 2004–2014 Desktop Publishing Forum and its members.