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Old 08-21-2007, 06:19 PM   #1
Marilynx
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Default Testing PM 7...

I've got PM7 up. I've succeeded in making a page the size of the one Lulu tells me I'll need to print the size book I'm planning to print. (6 x 9). I've succeeded in placing a single text file in it, and formatting the text more-or-less the way I want it. (I am going to have to learn how to create PM styles and save them.)

However, the text cheerfully flows off the end of the page and the rest vanishes. There does not appear to be an automatic addition of pages. Do I have to only place and position the text that fits on a single page? If so, doing the cook book and the book is going to be a witch.

I am finding the help files irritating rather than helpful. There's no continuity of information. A couple of paragraphs with no detail, and no examples. And then, "see this" and I click on that, and it has nothing to do with what I am trying to learn how to do.

I understand that PM7 is not Word and vice versa. I understand that most of the people here hate Word -- but it's what I've got, and what I'm used to, apart from my venerable WordStar.

However, in Word, when I began this project, I created a cookbook section template which had a blank section title page oriented so it would always be a righthand page in the book, and a blank page on its back. I set headers -- Louisiana SCD Lagniappe on the left and my name on the right. I set footers -- page number and section name on the left pages, and section name and page number on the right pages. I created several styles -- TitleLineOne, TitleLineTwo, which were, respectively, 16 point Ariston centered, and 16 point Ariston centered with an additional 25% leading underneath it. Also a Commentary style which was just 12 point TR italicised. I had an Ingredients style which was 14 point TR, ragged right, hanging indent, and a Directions style which was 14 point TR, justified. A Recipes style which was small caps italicized designated another recipe in the book. A bulleted and justified 14 point TR was used for "variations" on a given recipe. Word created its own notion of what size the foot notes ought to be. I set up a tool bar with buttons on it for each style, and as I typed in a recipe, I simply applied the formatting to it as I went. When I created a new section, say, breaking out "Fruits" from "Fruits and Vegetables" or creating "Herbs and Spices" to put all my spice mixtures in, instead of lumping them in with the "Dips and Dressings", I just used the template, added my frontispiece and footers, and pasted in the recipes I was breaking from one to the other.

After due consideration, I think I like the way the New Century Schoolbook looks, so I'll likely be using that. (Although a number of cooks tell me they prefer sans-serif fonts in their cook books.)

It may be naive of me, but I honestly thought I would be able to install the program, read the directions, and be able to have something like
a template ready to go in a very short time. It's what I've done with every other program I've ever tackled. My assumption was that what would take the longest would be converting my files to text and re-formatting them. I'm honestly frustrated that this isn't the case, and that, moreover, there doesn't seem to BE a set of comprehensive instructions. The so-called help file is just a bunch of pithy little reminders for people who already know the program.

I hope the book I've ordered is better.

   
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Old 08-21-2007, 06:59 PM   #2
don Arnoldy
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Originally Posted by Marilynx View Post
There does not appear to be an automatic addition of pages.
Unless you tell it otherwise, PageMaker will only fill the column, on which you click, with text. there should be a "tab" at the bottom of the text flow with a "+" in it that shows you there is more text. If you click on the +, it will "reload" the cursor and let you click in another place to continue the story.

Luckily, it is very easy to tell PM to place this text and continue adding pages until you run out of text. While you click to place the tet, hold down the shift key. You should see the cursor change and display a squiggle with an arrowhead.

   
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:21 PM   #3
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Unless you tell it otherwise, PageMaker will only fill the column, on which you click, with text. there should be a "tab" at the bottom of the text flow with a "+" in it that shows you there is more text. If you click on the +, it will "reload" the cursor and let you click in another place to continue the story.
There isn't. The ruler scrolls down to around 30" or so, with my page ghod-knows-where and there is no page. There was when I first started, but in trying to find other controls, I must have turned it off somehow.

Quote:
Luckily, it is very easy to tell PM to place this text and continue adding pages until you run out of text. While you click to place the tet, hold down the shift key. You should see the cursor change and display a squiggle with an arrowhead.
So, why doesn't the Help file SAY that? Heck, I wouldn't even know about the Place command if Kathleen hadn't mentioned it. I'd be trying to use ^C and ^V. I look under Options for Placing and can't find what I'm after. I can't find the formatting for my measurement fractions so they'll convert.

To someone who knows the program, I'm sure it's obvious.

   
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:02 PM   #4
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Click on the text box in PageMaker. At lower right you will see a little plus sign. Click on this with the cursor and the cursor will turn into a square. Go to your next page and click the square where you want to the text to start and it will do another page. Can't remember if there's a way to get it to do all the pages at once.

Sounds like your book is done in Word. Why don't you just finish it in Word?

   
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:33 PM   #5
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Click on the text box in PageMaker. At lower right you will see a little plus sign. Click on this with the cursor and the cursor will turn into a square. Go to your next page and click the square where you want to the text to start and it will do another page. Can't remember if there's a way to get it to do all the pages at once.
No. There isn't. I must have turned it off somehow. Clicking does not yield a square. Clicking yielded something with a squiggle and when I tried to move to the next page, it ended up pasted outside a page on the lower right.

Quote:
Sounds like your book is done in Word. Why don't you just finish it in Word?
Because Word XP's styles do not remain consistent from file to file and its "master document" is notorious for blowing up and destroying the working files. If I try to create a single file, just pasting things in in sequence, Word insists that there are 17 versions of each style. The folks in an Office Forum, when queried, said the only thing I could do was to start over with a new file and retype everything in a single file.

I figured if I was going to have to redo everything anyway to get a consistent and publishable result, I might as well use an actual page layout program.

   
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Old 08-22-2007, 06:14 AM   #6
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Marilyn:

Quote:
Because Word XP's styles do not remain consistent from file to file
Word's styles do not change if you're using the same template and sticking to them for every file; but the temptation to fiddle with the template styles is something very difficult to overcome (I find it almost impossible). The master document concept was poorly implemented in Word for Windows 2, but it is 'said' to be much improved in the latest versions; but who's willing to risk that, especially as Word can now handle much bigger files than it used to?

But the essential difference between Word (or most other word processors) is that it is not designed for any text that you don't begin on the p. 1 and continue until you get to the end. A DTP program, on the other hand, can give you a document that starts a story on p. 1 and continues the story on any other page selected. There are other features, of course, but that's why you have to tell the program you want to fill p. 1 with a 'story', then continue it on as many pages as needed.

   
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Old 08-23-2007, 08:11 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Michael Rowley View Post
Word's styles do not change if you're using the same template and sticking to them for every file; but the temptation to fiddle with the template styles is something very difficult to overcome (I find it almost impossible). The master document concept was poorly implemented in Word for Windows 2, but it is 'said' to be much improved in the latest versions; but who's willing to risk that, especially as Word can now handle much bigger files than it used to?
In THEORY they don't change. All I can say is that I pulled all of my files into one file, deleted all but one version of each style, went through the file, applying each style in an appropriate place, saved the file, and checked. One version of each style. Broke the files apart. Recombined them. 12 different variations of the style, one for each file.

I was warned about Word's Master Document problems, and have never attempted it. I always made separate section files for printing and forced the page number change in each file.

Quote:
But the essential difference between Word (or most other word processors) is that it is not designed for any text that you don't begin on the p. 1 and continue until you get to the end. A DTP program, on the other hand, can give you a document that starts a story on p. 1 and continues the story on any other page selected. There are other features, of course, but that's why you have to tell the program you want to fill p. 1 with a 'story', then continue it on as many pages as needed.
Right. But that is NOT self-evident from the so-called manual supplied with the program. In fact, there are a LOT of things which are not self-evident from that so-called manual.

   
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Old 08-22-2007, 05:44 AM   #8
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In the Layout menu, be sure Autoflow is clicked. That is what causes the text to continue flowing from page to page.

One messy detail: if you have more than one column defined for the pages, the text will flow into all of them (even where you don’t want it, in other words). If this is the case, let me know — there are good and messy solutions.

Speaking of fractions: If you need a wide range of fractions (and cookbooks often do), Adobe sells fractions for New Century Schoolbook. This fraction set is one of the reasons I like Schoolbook for cookbooks (besides the readability). I know that Windows fonts have three common fractions built in, but this set includes uncommon ones (1/8, 1/3, 2/3, etc.). These are better than built fractions (made by reducing and repositioning text type) because they print at the same weight as the text (like the ones in Windows fonts). You also get two different forms of fraction with the package.

I have never heard cooks say they prefer sans serif type for cookbooks. It is somewhat illogical, really.

By the way: Are you familiar with the book Recipes Into Type? It was written by a New York Times food section editor for recipe editors and writers. You may already have figured out most of what they discuss (and some of it strikes me as definitely newspaper-centric), but if not. Maybe you can find a copy at your library.

   
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Old 08-22-2007, 06:58 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by ktinkel View Post
In the Layout menu, be sure Autoflow is clicked. That is what causes the text to continue flowing from page to page.
I had turned that off. If it is on when placing a bit of text longer than one page, will it now flow to the next page?

Quote:
One messy detail: if you have more than one column defined for the pages, the text will flow into all of them (even where you don’t want it, in other words). If this is the case, let me know — there are good and messy solutions.
No, single column for all of the cook book. Although I admit that occasionally, having two columns for the laundry list of ingredients could be handy, I don't think it's critical.

Quote:
Speaking of fractions: If you need a wide range of fractions (and cookbooks often do), Adobe sells fractions for New Century Schoolbook. This fraction set is one of the reasons I like Schoolbook for cookbooks (besides the readability). I know that Windows fonts have three common fractions built in, but this set includes uncommon ones (1/8, 1/3, 2/3, etc.). These are better than built fractions (made by reducing and repositioning text type) because they print at the same weight as the text (like the ones in Windows fonts). You also get two different forms of fraction with the package.
Yes, the fractions I'll probably need to get. I can <wry grin> manage $29 for a single set of fractions, although Adobe apparently wants to sell that only as a set for four fonts at $99. One very clever person in the Office Forum created a macro which would automatically convert any typed fraction into its correct fraction -- properly weighted and everything. I've been using that in Word; it would be convenient to have for the cook book.

Quote:
I have never heard cooks say they prefer sans serif type for cookbooks. It is somewhat illogical, really.
Why illogical? I noticed when I was working with learning disabled children that some of them did better with a sans-serif font because there weren't all the curlycues to distract them from the actual shape of the letters and words. I have also noted that some people feel that serif is best for physically printed material, while sans-serif works best on screen, as for web pages.

Quote:
By the way: Are you familiar with the book Recipes Into Type? It was written by a New York Times food section editor for recipe editors and writers. You may already have figured out most of what they discuss (and some of it strikes me as definitely newspaper-centric), but if not. Maybe you can find a copy at your library.
Library? DO libraries exist? Most of the New Orleans libraries drowned two years ago, and the ones which didn't drown had their roofs blown off. I happen to live on high ground and we were lucky where our roof was concerned. One thing I have learned from six years of posting recipes to 5-6 SCD lists is that if what you write can be misunderstood, it will be. We get some really excellent cooks coming to these lists, but many seem to take as a rallying cry, "Help! My apartment has a kitchen!" which is the name of a cook book, actually.

Does the book you recommended give step by step directions for setting up header, footers, templates, and styles? I found some excellent pages here which give all sorts of Lulu-specific information about distilling PDFs and so forth.

Should I create separate files for each section of the cook book, ie, one for Appetizers, one for Beef, one for Dips & Dressings and then gather them into a book for TOC and indexing purposes?

   
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:09 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilynx View Post
I had turned that off. If it is on when placing a bit of text longer than one page, will it now flow to the next page?
Yes — that is what it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilynx
No, single column for all of the cook book. Although I admit that occasionally, having two columns for the laundry list of ingredients could be handy, I don't think it's critical.
There is no reason to avoid it (well, a little bit of text tweaking on the pages, but there is always some of that — and at least we no longer need to slice bits of type out of a spare galley and wriggle it into the paste-up!)

Set up a second master page, one that allows for two columns. After you have auto-filled your pages and are working through the recipes one at a time, switch to that layout, take the ingredients list and rearrange it in two columns. I would drop a horizontal guide just below to preserve the leading grid, then drag the rest of the text to that to finish the page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilynx
Yes, the fractions I'll probably need to get. I can <wry grin> manage $29 for a single set of fractions, although Adobe apparently wants to sell that only as a set for four fonts at $99.
You do not want OpenType fonts (the $29 ones). Linotype sells the Windows PostScript New Century Schoolbook fractions font for $24/weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilynx
One very clever person in the Office Forum created a macro which would automatically convert any typed fraction into its correct fraction -- properly weighted and everything. I've been using that in Word; it would be convenient to have for the cook book.
How? I would like to see that work. The usual problem is that the bold is too heavy to use for the reduced figures and the regular weight too light.

Lulu is not using an ordinary laser printer, and differences in printer resolution or toner particle size may show up if the weights are fudged even if they look okay at home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilynx
Does the book you recommended give step by step directions for setting up header, footers, templates, and styles?
No. That would be a computer handbook — this one is a style guide for recipe writing and presentation.

It does offer advice on such subjects as: Setting Up a Recipe (title, headnote, ingredients list, instructions, notes, etc., with details on all these); The Language of Recipes; Punctuation; Numbers; Indexing; Format and Typography; and more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilynx
Should I create separate files for each section of the cook book, ie, one for Appetizers, one for Beef, one for Dips & Dressings and then gather them into a book for TOC and indexing purposes?
It is always wise to subdivide a book of any great length (more than 100-ish pages, say). It doesn’t really matter how you do it (if the chapters are short, a section might make more sense, for example).

If you are following the convention that new chapters must begin on a right-hand page (I rarely have that luxury these days), then begin each of those in a new file. Then when assembling with the PageMaker Book function (in the Utilities menu here), you can specify that those RH page starts be retained.

   
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