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Old 01-06-2007, 04:30 AM   #1
RJ Emery
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Default Using Custom Fonts on Web Pages

1) If I specify a font for my web page, and another user who accesses those pages via the Internet does not have the same font installed on his computer, what does he or she see?

2) How can I include my special font, if it truly is unique, on my web page so that all users who view it can see the font I selected? (The font in question is Brush Script MT.)

3) Is there a standard set of fonts that all users and web pages have regardless?

   
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Old 01-06-2007, 05:50 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by RJ Emery View Post
1) If I specify a font for my web page, and another user who accesses those pages via the Internet does not have the same font installed on his computer, what does he or she see?

2) How can I include my special font, if it truly is unique, on my web page so that all users who view it can see the font I selected? (The font in question is Brush Script MT.)

3) Is there a standard set of fonts that all users and web pages have regardless?
You're supposed to specify an order of three fonts. I follow KT's suggestion of just specifying one and either serif, or san serif, but the validators don't really like it.

I think asking what fonts are in common regardless has become again an interesting qquestion, as by now the list has to have grown. it used to be about six. Here's an interesting link.

http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html


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Old 01-06-2007, 06:09 AM   #3
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I specify and use only two fonts, Arial plus one other. That one other, as I indicated in my original post, is Brush Script MT. I appreciate your response, but my three questions remain unanswered.

   
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Old 01-06-2007, 10:02 AM   #4
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Re ampsoft's opinions ... it gives me pause when the first font on their list of XP fonts at

http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/w...y-version.html

is one that I don't have on my XP computer, Agatha.

   
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Old 01-06-2007, 11:09 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by George View Post
You're supposed to specify an order of three fonts. I follow KT's suggestion of just specifying one and either serif, or san serif, but the validators don't really like it.
I have never seen a recommendation that you list three fonts, and I have never had a validation problem when I list one and the generic (serif or sans-serif).

If you really spelled it “san serif” it would not be recognized, btw.

   
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Old 01-07-2007, 05:00 AM   #6
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I have never seen a recommendation that you list three fonts, and I have never had a validation problem when I list one and the generic (serif or sans-serif).

If you really spelled it “san serif” it would not be recognized, btw.
When people at INETPUB told me to use three, you responded one was enough, followed by serif or san-serif. My Sam's and old 10 Minute Guide by Que recommend three. O'Reilly recommends only one followed by serif, san-serif. He spells san serif without a dash in text and with a dash in coding.

The validator does not indicate a problem, only that not using more than one specific font family is not recommended, which leaves a lot of verbage to read on the validation sheet. I was warned at INETPUB not to set the fonts without more than one specific family until after validation.

Or so my memory and experience has been.

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Old 01-07-2007, 05:36 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by George View Post
When people at INETPUB told me to use three, you responded one was enough, followed by serif or san-serif. My Sam's and old 10 Minute Guide by Que recommend three. O'Reilly recommends only one followed by serif, san-serif. He spells san serif without a dash in text and with a dash in coding.
"san-serif" is not a recognized term (with or without dash) - the only valid spelling that will be recognized by browsers (whether in HTML or CSS) is "sans-serif" - anything else you may have seen is simply a spelling error or typo, and will be ignored by browsers.

If O'Reilly recommends only one font name followed by either "serif" or "sans-serif' they are wrong - at the very least you will have to cater for equivalent fonts between Windows and Mac operating systems (that makes two, add Vista and that makes three) plus a generic fall-back; and there are more generic types than just "serif" and "sans-serif" as well to take into account depending on your specified preferred font (for instance "monotype" to match "Courier" or "Courier New" and "cursive" for script-type fonts; finally there is also "fantasy": that makes five generic families in CSS, not two; of the extra ones, monotype may be essential for things like displaying code or user input examples.).

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The validator does not indicate a problem, only that not using more than one specific font family is not recommended, which leaves a lot of verbage to read on the validation sheet.
Which validator? In any case, validators tend to emphasize syntactic validity, not usability - specifying just one font family name is entirely valid but may not result in a usable page for the visitor. "Valid" is not the same thing as "usable".

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Originally Posted by George
I was warned at INETPUB not to set the fonts without more than one specific family until after validation.
Bad advice (and not mine, I'm sure) - forget it. For each element that needs fonts defined, start with at least two font families that are equivalent for Windows and Mac and add a corresponding (fallback) generic family - leaving out any of those will just result in inferior display for some visitors. Validators will generally not tell you what current cross-platform equivalent font families are, so there is no reason not to add the necessary ones before validation (with whatever validator you use).

   
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:43 AM   #8
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Default INETPUB Explained

INETPUB was the predecessor of this forum, hosted at Compuserve before AOL (owners of Compuserve) decided to reduce the technical forums, and their membership. Newbies might like this explanation of our jargon.
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Old 01-08-2007, 05:54 AM   #9
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... I think asking what fonts are in common regardless has become again an interesting qquestion, as by now the list has to have grown. it used to be about six. Here's an interesting link.

http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html

For the fonts listed in your link, if one does not have them on his or her system, from where may they be downloaded if without cost or obligation?

   
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Old 01-08-2007, 11:20 AM   #10
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For the fonts listed in your link, if one does not have them on his or her system, from where may they be downloaded if without cost or obligation?
I would think, that you refer to a very limited number of web viewers at this point in time. Not so just a short while back. Unforuntately, I don't try to deal with the low percentage of viewers with this problem, but I also would think there is an answer. I just don't know it. I recall in the past one could pick up some decent fonts cheap on e-bay (but KT, no doubt, would have a different concept of "decent" than I do).

For now, I just stick with Georgia and Verdana. If I wanted a special font, I would go with a graphic, but I'm waiting on that, until cable has an even larger share of the market. But I'm more interested in line of reasoning than athetics.

I'm just thinking that the number of fonts shared by a very great percentage of web viewers has significantly increased, and instead of there being a problem with having the most common fonts, it should be considered how the list of basic fonts available for web design has expanded. I would feel pretty comfortable using a lot more fonts now-a-days with confidence that 90% or more of the viewers have them, but I haven't tried that yet.

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