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Old 09-15-2006, 12:26 PM   #1
bmann
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Default ½ character in Mac Roman

Anyone know the secret to typing this character in a non-unicode Mac program such as Quark 6.5?

Thanks,
Ben
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Old 09-15-2006, 12:39 PM   #2
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Anyone know the secret to typing this character in a non-unicode Mac program such as Quark 6.5?
Don’t think there is one. The fi ligature is normally in that space.

The fractions exist in Adobe and other high-class fonts (not necessarily in all fonts, however), but in an inaccessible area.

If you have Fontographer or another font editor, you could make a fraction font by pulling the 1/2 and 3/4 characters from the font (and even make a bunch more), and then generating a font with its own name. Or you could move the fraction characters into accessible places in the existing font (and then be sure to rename the font).

   
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Old 09-16-2006, 07:34 AM   #3
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I suppose that is one way to workaround the Mac deficiency, although I am not familar with creating new fonts. Another work around would be to insert the glyph into a unicode program like InDesign, convert it to outlines and save it as an EPS, then insert it inline with the text in the Quark Doc. Although, that is a little less clever than your method, since it won't be automatically sized if the font size changes. :/
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Old 09-17-2006, 04:52 PM   #4
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I suppose that is one way to workaround the Mac deficiency
Ho! It is not a deficiency of the Mac. Windows had no f-ligatures; the Mac did. Typographically speaking, ligs are more useful than a couple of fractions.

(Of course, if you use any f-ligs, you really need all 5 — ff, ffi, ffl, fi, fl — rather than merely the fi and fl — but realize that the Mac was the first desktop computer to attempt any typographic niceties, and that was all there was room for.)

Then, when the PC finally got typographically informed, they decided to have three fractions rather than 2 ligs (and something else I cannot remember). But it is as inane to have 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 (but not 1/3, 1/8, et al) as to have only a couple of ligs.

So please do not suggest there is a Mac deficiency without recognizing the PC deficiency.

Or, better yet, stop thinking in terms of deficiencies at all.

   
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Old 09-17-2006, 06:26 PM   #5
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Ho! It is not a deficiency of the Mac. Windows had no f-ligatures; the Mac did. Typographically speaking, ligs are more useful than a couple of fractions.

(Of course, if you use any f-ligs, you really need all 5 — ff, ffi, ffl, fi, fl — rather than merely the fi and fl — but realize that the Mac was the first desktop computer to attempt any typographic niceties, and that was all there was room for.)

Then, when the PC finally got typographically informed, they decided to have three fractions rather than 2 ligs (and something else I cannot remember). But it is as inane to have 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 (but not 1/3, 1/8, et al) as to have only a couple of ligs.

So please do not suggest there is a Mac deficiency without recognizing the PC deficiency.

Or, better yet, stop thinking in terms of deficiencies at all.
Ah I didn't see this post before. I see where you're coming from. I don't call myself a real desktop publisher or graphic designer since I do not create any documents. My main job is handling other peoples' documents, extracting and replacing the text in a different language and then giving the file back with the text fitted. I don't have much if any time for tweaking type, most documents arrive on my desk and leave within a day or two. My main challenge is compatibility, as you may have noticed in most of my threads. As we go into the future and everybody catches up with unicode and opentype my job will hopefully become cake. Until then I suppose I'll be griping about every little incompatibility and snag along the way.
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:32 AM   #6
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As we go into the future and everybody catches up with unicode and opentype my job will hopefully become cake.
Did you know that is a sort of curse? Just say, “Oh, that [whatever] will be a piece of cake!” and it instantly becomes the worst [whatever] you’ve ever seen.

Never, ever say that. Your life will not be worth living!

   
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Old 09-19-2006, 03:13 PM   #7
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Yes, well, fortunately I used reverse psychology on the curse because if my job really were cake then I probably wouldn't want it anymore.
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:05 PM   #8
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Ho! It is not a deficiency of the Mac.
I agree, though, I would rather have ligatures than fractions.

Doesn't it seem like the software could make adjustments to the characters automatically rather than replacing them with a new character (the ligature)?
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Old 09-18-2006, 04:45 AM   #9
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Doesn't it seem like the software could make adjustments to the characters automatically rather than replacing them with a new character (the ligature)?
While a program could see 1 then / then 2, it could make a change. Word does so, creating different fractions. However, to do it correctly (that is, to place a correct alternate character in this position) there would have to be that character existing in the font, and that is the problem you have already seen.

Unicode solves all, but when you are using older software like Quark, you cannot access this.
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:27 AM   #10
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Don:

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when you are using older software like Quark
Unicode is, I think, about ten years' old. Didn't Quark think it important?

   
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