Web Creation Software

[PeterArnel]

We are moving control of our web site in house - I would appreciate advice on what Web Creation Software to buy
Peter

[ktinkel]

We are moving control of our web site in house - I would appreciate advice on what Web Creation Software to buyWhat was used in the past?

What skills do you have on staff? If the person/people who will be responsible for creating and maintaining the site use some particular app(s), those might make sense.

If you are starting from scratch, I would suggest starting out by learning how XHTML, CSS, PHP, etc. work — by creating a few pages by hand — before you get into a specialist application. Then you will be able to troubleshoot better.

But a complex site with e-commerce, forms, ftp access, etc. might be too much to manage without some tools over the long haul.

Just a few semi-random thoughts.

[PeterArnel]

WE are really starting from scatch, although we have alot of understanding. My style has always been to try and pick a major player and train employees to learn their software - hoping that the player will be the one to improve their software as time goes by ( like Photoshop did in the mid to late 90's). I have heard MacroMedia - Dreamweaver etc is the one to follow - do you think that this is the route to go
Peter

[ktinkel]

WE are really starting from scatch, although we have alot of understanding. My style has always been to try and pick a major player and train employees to learn their software - hoping that the player will be the one to improve their software as time goes by ( like Photoshop did in the mid to late 90's). I have heard MacroMedia - Dreamweaver etc is the one to follow - do you think that this is the route to go
Dreamweaver is the hot product these days, no doubt.

My problem with Dreamweaver (or its competitor GoLive) is that when I get into trouble (which seems all too often), I cannot figure out how to get out.

But if you have staff ready and able to master the software and learn how to troubleshoot the odd problems, then Dreamweaver is a good choice.

[donmcc]

I do almost all of my work in Homesite, a great little editor that comes with Dreamweaver (although you can buy it separately). You need to know HTML well to use it, and this really is a must for at least one person on a web team.

I work alone. If I were on a team, I proably would use Dreamweaver. It is important to make sure that two people are not working on a file at the same time, and DW, Front Page, and I assume GoLive, do this. You "check out" a file to work on it, so you won't overwrite someone elses work.

I would hitch my wagon to Dreamweaver. Adobe took over Macromedia to get it (and Flash) so it will probably be the survivor of the merger. Stay away from FrontPage. If you are forced to Go Blue, then Visual InterDev is the better route to take. Any other players out there are smaller, and thus more risky.

And, like KT said, you need to learn (or to get someone who knows) HTML, CSS, PHP, ASP and the other tools of the trade. Otherwise you will be like the book publishers of the 90s who brought work inhouse without having or acquiring any design or typographic expertise (not realizing that those were part of what they were paying for from the type shops).

Don McCahill

PS (You can get a 30 day trial of Dreamweaver free on the MM website, if you want to test it out.)

[donmcc]

My problem with Dreamweaver (or its competitor GoLive) is that when I get into trouble (which seems all too often), I cannot figure out how to get out.As I mentioned in my other post, I don't use DW, but I do teach it. When my students get into a mess I just switch into HTML mode, and work it out in there.

The beauty of the porgram is that it allows people of different levels of expertise to work on it. For instance, you can protect a design, and let a beginner into only the parts of a page that they are unlikely to mess up.

Don McCahill

[PeterArnel]

I have just had Fireworks mention to me - what does that do
Peter

[donmcc]

Fireworks is a good buy, but it is for creating graphics and Javascript functions, not for building pages. If you are familiar with Photoshop, it is what ImageReady was created to compete with. But IR wasn't good enough, so they stopped selling it and bundled it with PS. Like GoLive, I think IR will die, or else Fireworks will get renamed ImageReady.

Why FW is better: a) it does animated GIFs and rollovers far better than IR, b) it can create nice drop down menus, which are beyond IR, c) the user interface is just easier to wrok with.

Full Photoshop has much more power than FW for image modification, and I tend to use it for that. But if a place doesn't have (or can't afford) Photoshop, then FW will do pretty much everything you need for web work. It does not do any of the print features that PS does ... I don't even think it can deal in CMYK.

You can also get a demo of it at Macromedia if you want to play.

Don McCahill

[PeterArnel]

THanks Don
Buying the right software is not the problem - finding it is.
WE have all the Graphic software and from what I understand - should now buy Dreamweaver and Fireworks
Many thanks to everyone - Peter

[Kelvyn]

My style has always been to try and pick a major player and train employees to learn their software

The employees will really need some knowledge of web site structure, of XHTML, and CSS before starting to use DW. Unfortunately DW leads too many people to believe that creating a properly functioning and professional looking site is easy. It is not easy if the basic knowledge is not there.

You also have to consider knowledge of PHP/MySQL, asp, .NET etc if using a database to drive the site.

If there are more than a few people likely to contribute page content then you may also need to look at a Content Management System.

[PeterArnel]

THanks Kelvyn
We have a a contact Management system already - which an outsider has been poorly managing. I am not to concerned about "the knowledge" as, like lots in the Printing Industry we are well used to having to work with"unknown" software. What I dont want to do is point my guys to software which is not up to scatch. I look at clients who send files in - in Word or Publisher when Quark or ID would be much better

Peter

Thanks for your input though

[Kelvyn]

Peter, all you need to keep in mind is that DreamWeaver is just a specialised editing program with a steep learning curve, but once mastered is a really useful tool. However, it is also easy to use incorrectly - and sorting out problems really does need doing at the code level. There are plenty of courses available for new users, including an introductory course by the HTML Writers Guild (http://hwg.org/) which recommends, but does not rely on, previous knowledge of HTML.

[PeterArnel]

Kelvyn
Thanks foir the advice
Peter

[Richard Waller]

Somewhere along the line you are going to have to be using HTML. Optionally you can things like CSS. Homesite is the tool I use and now would not be without it.

But for non-skilled staff some ISPs have a File Editting tool in a Contol Panel for your site which is ideal for several people to be updating the site, and for making small changes. If there is a major change then the HTML person will download the latest version from the ISP, make the changes in Homesite ot whatever and then upload it again.

[imatt]

If you want to create standardised HTML web page templates, then you could do worse than Kaleidoscope Designer from www.organicsw.com (http://www.organicsw.com). It creates consistant webpage / site templates including rollovers which can then be imported into GoLive, Dreamweaver, Frontpage, etc.

[Ian Petersen]

We have a a contact Management system already


Peter,

A content management system (CMS) is not the same as a contact management system. A content management system is commonly used nowadays on (especially) commercial sites to separate the content of a site (articles, data, images, downloadable files etc.) from the visual form (user interface, menus, identity graphics etc.). It also enables non-technical content authors to update content without grappling with the nitty-gritty of HTML coding. In practice a CMS usually consists of a database containing the site content and a scripting engine (PHP, ASP etc.) that serves the content via HTML templates to the web browser.

Whatever software you decide on to code the basic HTML and CSS of your site (Dreamweaver, GoLive, Homesite, TopStyle etc.) I'd second Kelvyn's recommendation of using a CMS to actually run it on.

There are thousands of CMSs 'out there' from small open-source systems that can be downloaded for free and intalled in seconds to multi-thousand dollar solutions for global corporations. You should be able to find one that meets your needs.

[dthomsen8]

We are moving control of our web site in house - I would appreciate advice on what Web Creation Software to buy
Peter

Perhaps we would understand your situation better if we could look at your web site as it currently exists.

[dthomsen8]

WE are really starting from scatch, although we have alot of understanding. My style has always been to try and pick a major player and train employees to learn their software - hoping that the player will be the one to improve their software as time goes by ( like Photoshop did in the mid to late 90's). I have heard MacroMedia - Dreamweaver etc is the one to follow - do you think that this is the route to go
Peter

I would agree that Dreamweaver MX is the way to go. There are popular products that I would avoid, such as Microsoft FrontPage 2003.

Still, as others have said, knowing XHTML and something of web site structure is very important.

[ilox]

Just a follow up on what the others are saying about a Content Management System. Mambo is a very popular CMS and is open source and freely downloadable. What I suggest is that you drop into http://www.mamboserver.com and you will find great explanations and information for the newcomer. You will also be able to work through their demo site which allows you to both build and run a Mambo site online.

Another simple option to get the feel for a CMS is to go to http://mambosolutions.com and download their MSAS - Mambo Stand-Alone Server. It will build a complete solution on your Windows PC and when it runs it will run virtual copies of MySQL, PHP and Apache as well as the Mambo software so you will be able to create and manage a site to really get the feel of how powerful this is.

When choosing what tool you will use to build your site much depends on what you want your site to do.

I wanted to help an organisation get themselves onto the web but still have their staff manage the process and all contribute to the information sharing. So Mambo was installed and then Staff trained on how to lodge their stories and reports etc. It is still under development with a new version coming out soon but the major point is that the IT people can build the technical part of the site but don't have to build the content. The Staff contribute the content and their skills and equipment to do that are as simple as having a web browser and being able to cut and paste from Word or whatever. Mambo doesn't need any flashy software to be a contributor, just the access level. http://www.alrm.org.au

[ktinkel]

You should probably explore the world of CMS (content management systems), which includes a wide gamut of styles, capability, ease of use, and cost. (A blog is sort of a limited content management system; on the high end, anything goes, including systems running complex commercial web sites.)

Some are open source, like PHP-Nuke (http://phpnuke.org/index.php), PostNuke (http://news.postnuke.com/) (still in beta, but fairly advanced), as well as Mambo (http://www.mamboserver.com/) (mentioned here; it seems to be in the throes of management transition — not sure about the impact of that).

Others are commercial, which may offer advantages, including more rapid updates (in response to security problems, say), real documentation, and more hand-holding.

CMS Matrix (http://www.cmsmatrix.org/) has a huge list of candidates (and I can think of some not on the list!). You can select up to 10 to compare features on, which might get you started in your search. You will at the very least have a chance to catch the lingo and get a feel for the variety of uses possible with these systems.

CMS Watch (http://www.cmswatch.com/) has teaser articles on its home page, and offers a subscription report. You can catch the flavor of the category there, and may find the report useful (you can download a free sample there).

And there is at least one called Vignette (http://www.vignette.com/) enterprise content management that is used by some big-name entities. Have no personal knowledge of it, but it might give you a benchmark on the high end.

Good luck with all this. It is a lot of fun to consider these systems, and even download and play with them. The major thing to look for — beyond installation and management features — is stability and reliability. You can often get hints of problems in these areas in the support forums which most of the systems have.

[ilox]

Thanks for the heads-up Kathleen, I had no idea that was happening. Ihave just read all the 57 pages of messages posted before that thread was closed and also been over to the developer's site at www.opensourcematters.org (http://www.opensourcematters.org)

I am shocked that things could come unstuck like that. Mambo is an excellent product but whether it is still such a good product by this time next year is well and truly guessing. It is going to be a while before the dust settles and some clarity comes out of this.

I will continue to use Mambo for the sites I have built with it as it still is a very good product. I dont think I will be able to recommend it to anybody else till things become stable and when that might be is ...

[ktinkel]

Mambo is an excellent product but whether it is still such a good product by this time next year is well and truly guessing. It is going to be a while before the dust settles and some clarity comes out of this. ...I was surprised myself. I discovered a reference to the Mambo coup in a message somewhere, so followed up and found the blow-by-blow account.

Perhaps it will all work out, in time.

[P.S. — Whenever I see your member name, I find myself yearning for an iBagel <g>]