Buying a New Camera

[Ronald]

I want to upgrade and get a new camera but don't know much about what's out there. Right now I just use a point-and-shoot digital camera that came packaged with a printer from Best Buy. I've had it at least three years and have been able to get some great photos, but it's abilities are limited.

Right now I'm thinking I'd spend between $300-500 on a new camera for professional photography (alongside my graphic design/illustration work). It would be great to have features like adjustable shutter speed, manual focus, and other qualities like in film cameras, so I'm guessing I need a DSLR or bridge digital camera. I've used a nice film camera just once for school and am not skilled with using said features but am eager to learn. I know the very high-end cameras cost much more than $500, but I'm curious what's available in that range.

Thank you.

[ktinkel]

Hi, Ronald. We have had several threads here about choosing a new digital camera (or about the factors that might influence your decision). Here are some of them:

“In love w/an unreleased camera? (http://www.desktoppublishingforum.com/bb/showthread.php?t=6179)”
.
“Digital photography (http://www.desktoppublishingforum.com/bb/showthread.php?t=4304)”
.
“Digital camera recommendations (http://www.desktoppublishingforum.com/bb/showthread.php?t=350)” This one is a bit older, but still a good discussion. But many of the capabilities discussed here may have improved since then, dollar for dollar.

And do ask questions!

[terrie]

Take a look at this buydig.com page (http://www.buydig.com/shop/searchresults.aspx?cti=3014&pti=3014) which I think will give you an idea of what's available in DSLRs--I ordered my Canon DSLR from them and was pleased with their service and pricing.

Note that some of the cameras listed as "refurbished" but don't shy away from those as I've done quite well with refurb'd equipment--my first digital camera and a number of different printers.

refurbdepot.com (http://refurbdepot.com/) is a good place to look for refurbish equipment--see the "Product Search" drop down on the left side of the page and select "digital cameras" to see a list of what they have available. I have ordered from refurbdepot and again, been pleased with their service and pricing.

The one problem you will find if you go the DSLR route is that you will begin to slide down that slippery path of being seduced by the different lenses available...also, there is the paralysis by analysis problem once you start researching different cameras....'-}}

Steve's Digicams (http://www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html) is a good place to experience paralysis by analysis--note that the site is having problems as I couldn't get the pages to load in Firefox2 but they load fine in Firefox3 and Netscape 7.2 and now the reviews page loaded fine in Firefox2...anyway...the site has lots of useful info...

Terrie

[Hugh Wyn Griffith]

Another excellent source of data on cameras is http://www.dpreview.com/ (http://www.dpreview.com/) which is UK based but gives US prices.

One of the features is the ability to set up a matrix of features -- like WA =<28mm and so on -- and then get a list of cameras meeting all the requirements.

Worth searching their Forums on a specific camera to see what comments there may be.

I use a "SuperZoom" Olympus SP560 which gives me 28mm - 560mm zoom which I like. I use the extreme wide angle a lot when on vacation.

Watch for shutter lag especially on non-dSLR cameras since it can be unpleasantly long and make action pictures difficult.

The Olympus I have now does not have a tilt and swivel LCD panel on the back which is something to go for if you possible can since it makes low or high level shots much easier.

[BobRoosth]

I also like dpreview.com. They have really consistent reviews; i.e., the same tests on every camera. I have the Canon G1 and G6. They have all the manual modes you might want in a small package, along with the tilt/swivel LCD and a viewfinder. Several of the newer Canons have the same LCD design.

The Panasonic Lumix G1 looks to be very interesting, but is a bit more expensive than your spec.

[Ronald]

Thanks, everyone. I hardly know about the different camera features, so it's hard to research the matter and be willing to spend so much money. I'll try to read up and if I come across any questions, I'll be sure to post.

[ktinkel]

Thanks, everyone. I hardly know about the different camera features, so it's hard to research the matter and be willing to spend so much money. I'll try to read up and if I come across any questions, I'll be sure to post.It might be helpful if you made some lists:


What sorts of pictures you think you will want to take — products or other still-life images; people in repose or doing things; natural situations.
.
How you think your pictures may be used — on the web, in print, whether newsprint or glossy.
.
Your realistic budget (even a range).


Then you could ask for recommendations from the camera buffs here.

[Ronald]

It might be helpful if you made some lists:


What sorts of pictures you think you will want to take — products or other still-life images; people in repose or doing things; natural situations.
.
How you think your pictures may be used — on the web, in print, whether newsprint or glossy.
.
Your realistic budget (even a range).


Then you could ask for recommendations from the camera buffs here.
Well with my digital camera, I dislike the fact that (as far as I can tell) I can't take a motion photo without using flash. That is, if something/someone is moving about, it often blurs without flash. I usually prefer a natural photo with no flash at all, which often requires shooting people/objects in stillness or being at somewhat of a distance. A fast shutter speed that can freeze an object in motion without needing a blast of light would be great. This is not to say that I would never use flash; some poorly-lit settings may simply require it.

I also would love to focus manually, particularly with macro photography but for other types as well. My camera has often worked well for macro with the subject 1-2 feet away, but for a more extreme close-up, like an insect, it usually falters.

Better portrait photography is also desired. I often admire band photos in CD booklets, particularly the excellent black & white work by Anton Corbijn, and wish I could accomplish that. I'm referring to a more natural "open setting" kind of portrait and headshots.

Lastly, while not as important as the above, I'd like to work with longtime exposure as in nighttime photos.

As for how my photos would be used, I'm thinking quality along the lines of print advertising, magazines, and coffee table books but also akin to National Geographic, which I often read. That may be a bit broad...

[ktinkel]

I am no expert, but from the list of your requirements, you would be best served by a digital SLR (single lens reflex) with large sensors and multiple lenses to adapt to different circumstances. This would be an investment, but if you do a good job of studying and testing the options, one that could pay for a decade or so.

On the other hand, digital cameras are still in a state of rapid change (though it seems that SLRs are more stable at this point than the point-and-shoot, zooming types). So it may be too early to make a big investment in a pro-quality SLR.

So in that case you might want to find a decent high-zoom non-SLR and see how well it satisfies you, at least for now. You can get quite good ones these days for less than $500, even in the $350 range. And you can find optical zoom of up to 20X (digital zoom is irrelevant; pay attention only to optical).

Our older Olympus (10X optical zoom) does allow for manual focus, produces enough pixels for print magazine quality, has a viewfinder (I find it difficult to focus or compose without one; your experience may vary), but is missing some of the newer features such as shake compensation. (A tripod solves that problem, of course.)

David Pogue covers digital cameras for the N.Y. Times, and I find him to be knowledgeable, able to sort out the useful from the not so useful features. His State of the Art (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/20/technology/personaltech/20pogue.html) column is worth reading. (The link is to this week’s column, which discusses two new point-and-shoot cameras that have sensors that enhance low-light photography (but that also have a lot of flaws). There are links to other of his columns dedicated to cameras.

[Ronald]

Excellent. Thank you for all the information, ktinkel. This helps put me in the right direction. If/when I have anymore questions, I'll be sure to ask.

[BobRoosth]

My favorite site for camera information is http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/

Happy hunting.

[Ronald]

I'm still looking at cameras based largely on what you folks have said. Choosing what camera type is hazy: I'm thinking either DSLR or bridge? But from my reading, bridge cameras don't allow interchangeable lenses while DSLRs do. Then again, other than an occasional fishbowl effect or what have you, maybe I wouldn't need too many lenses if I had a strong enough zoom to begin with?

So far I'm eying a Canon G6 and Panasonic Lumix G1 as noted by Kathleen. It looks like I can get the Canon pretty cheap while the latter is considerably newer and more expensive, which I'm fine with. I'm also comfortable with refurbished models.

Kathleen mentioned getting large sensors, which would mean a high megapixel rate. But what would that be, 12mp and up? I'm also keeping an eye out for tilt and swivel LCD panels, good optical zoom, and shutter lag as mentioned by other forum members.

Is it possible to have a camera that, without a long shutter lag, takes acceptable photos under dark/dim lighting that won't cause blur? There could be situations were I'd want to be low key and not use flash.

[Benwiggy]

My advise is to buy only from a company that made "traditional" cameras, e.g. Canon, Ricoh, Olympus, Nikon, Fuji; rather than an electronics/consumer company that has a line in cameras.

It may be true that the electronic and optical components are the same, but for me it's the experience and thought behind it all.

[terrie]

ronald: Is it possible to have a camera that, without a long shutter lag, takes acceptable photos under dark/dim lighting that won't cause blur? There could be situations were I'd want to be low key and not use flash.Should be possible but the only way you might be able to find out before buying is to spend time in camera-review-hell in which one becomes glassy-eyed and symptoms of the dread disease of paralysis-by-analysis begin to appear...'-}}

When I was in this state, I found steve's digicams reviews (http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/) to be very helpful--although it can lead to the above mentioned disease...'-}}

Personally, having owned/used SLRs, I leaned toward the DSLRs and when I had the money, I ordered a Canon Rebel Xt (350D) body only along with a telephoto lens--rather than the standard body plus standard lens combo because it's less expensive in the long run and you get the lens(es) you would really use. I ordered from buydig.com (http://www.buydig.com/shop/home.aspx) and was pleased with their website's ease of use (very easy to narrow down choices and check prices and options), their pricing and service.

That said, do check out refurbs--my first digital camera (Olympus C-40) was a refurb--and I'd recommend refurbdepot.com (http://refurbdepot.com/index.cfm) as I've ordered a number of things from them (the camera and a couple of different refurb printers). Use their "Category Search" (digital cameras) and "Company Search" (Canon, for example) if you know the brand you want or just the "Category Search" if you want to see all the digital cameras they have...

For example, they are selling the Canon EOS Digital Rebel XSi (http://refurbdepot.com/CANON_EOS_Digital_Rebel_XSi_Body_2756B001.cfm) body only (12.2-Megapixel CMOS, 3.0" LCD Monitor, Live View Function, 3.5 fps Continuous Shooting, High Sensitivity (ISO 1600), Picture Style Settings--and there is a rather full feature/tech specs description on the page) for $489.95 and then you could buy whichever lens you wanted from buydig.com or someplace else...

Hope that helps...

Terrie

[Steve Rindsberg]

Some of the bridge cameras offer interchangeable lenses (but it's not the usual thing).
The Lumix cameras have good quality lenses and some have extraordinarily long zoom ranges (but can have rather small image sensors, so the image quality won't be as good as a DSLR (which usually have larger sensors) will give you.

Don't confuse size of sensors with megapixels. All things being equal, a larger sensor will give you a better image than a smaller sensor at the same number of megapixels. But there are cameras that have small sensors but deliver large numbers of pixels. Personally, I'd rather have a higher quality but lower resolution image. My older teenycam (Pentax Optio S) delivers better images than the much higher resolution Lumix I've got, but the Lumix has a much wider zoom range, image stabilization and a lot of other features that make it more versatile.

And by shutter lag, do you mean the delay between pressing the shutter and actually taking the picture, or just long shutter-open times?

If the latter, look for good image sensor performance at higher "film" speeds. Some of the newer Nikon DSLRs seem to be absolute killers in this area.

[Howard Allen]

Is it possible to have a camera that, without a long shutter lag, takes acceptable photos under dark/dim lighting that won't cause blur? There could be situations were I'd want to be low key and not use flash.

Depends: do you want to have your cake, or eat it? :)

All cameras--whether film or digital--work by gathering light. There are only so many ways of gathering more light:

1) Expose the sensor/film longer (shutter speed)
2) Use a more sensitive sensor/film (ISO "speed")
3) Use a bigger "pipeline" (i.e. wider lens aperture)
4) Introduce more light (flash)

That's about it. Good DSLRs will give you the ability to manipulate all four variables--multiple shutter speeds; multiple ISO sensitivity settings; interchangeable lenses (lenses are available in different "speeds", which means "maximum light-gathering ability": 50mm--or equivalent--standard lenses may be available in different maximum apertures--f1.2, f1.4, f1.8, f2.0 etc., the smaller the number the bigger the aperture, and the higher the price). You will also be able to use more powerful flash units.

The best combination of all four variables will depend on the situation. With point-and-shoot cameras you may be stuck with a single not-very-fast lens and no (or a smaller range of) ISO settings, which are two variables you want to maximize for lurking under the radar in dimly-lit environments.

[Ronald]

Depends: do you want to have your cake, or eat it?
Heheh. Good point. Thank you for the in-depth perspective.

A lot of this information is so overwhelming, I'm literally just looking at the specific cameras you guys say you bought/own and seeing how high a rating they have - like right now I'm eying Terrie's Canon Rebel Xt.

I'm pretty confident DSLR is the way to go. And now I know to focus more on sensor size than megapixels, but by reading product specs, I still can't tell what a "large" sensor size would be. I see the aforementioned Rebel Xt has a "CMOS sensor."

By shutter lag, do you mean the delay between pressing the shutter and actually taking the picture, or just long shutter-open times?
Hugh Wyn Griffith mentioned it earlier in this thread: "Watch for shutter lag especially on non-dSLR cameras since it can be unpleasantly long and make action pictures difficult."

I, too, regard picture quality over resolution.

[Steve Rindsberg]

DPReview.com gives you the sensor size, number of pixels and pixel density (number of pixels per square cm of sensor).

For example, my Lumix at 7+ megapixels is 29 MP/cm²
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Panasonic/panasonic_dmctz3.asp

The Nikon D700 (not mine, alas) at 12+ megapixels is 1.4 MP/cm²
Roughly 50% more pixels but spread over a MUCH larger sensor ... in other words, the lower the pixel density, the better the image (again, all other factors being equal ... which they won't be, of course!)

And about lag ... the DSLR will almost inevitably be better than smaller cameras. Some of them take so long to focus that you press the shutter, the subject's gone out to dinner, had a nice coffee afterwards, perhaps a brandy, taken a stroll around the square and .... click. The silly thing's finally taken a picture.

But some of the non-DSLRs are much snappier than others. It's no DSLR but the Lumix mentioned above is bearable. That's another reason I chose it over others.

If you burrow through several pages of the full reviews, you'll find that DPReview gives shutter lag test results. The numbers themselves won't be too useful but if you look up the results for a couple of cameras you've handled, it should give you a sense of what's good and what's not.

[dianizon]

I needed a new camera, as my HP broke in Feb while on vac. It was a great point and shoot for almost 5 yrs. I was looking into DSLR also because I'm nearing retirement and do design work in Illustrator, InDesign and Photoshop. I would like to start taking higher quality pics as I plan on travelling some. Started checking dpreview.com last Nov and decided the Canon G11 was for me.


It's a point and shoot if I want it to be, also can buy lenses and filters when I learn more about them. And has ability to shoot raw alongside .jpg. Bought it 3wks ago from NewEgg for under $500. Hubby asked why I didn't buy another pocket camera, well it would fit in a large pocket for now, or pouch. I told him this is my retirement camera, and now he can buy me accessories for gifts in the future!! I'm loving it. Takes excellent pics and is very easy to use. Has settings a pro could use better, but I'll learn. :cool:

[terrie]

dianizon: I told him this is my retirement camera, and now he can buy me accessories for gifts in the future!!LOL!!! Sounds like a nice camera...

Terrie

[BobRoosth]

Enjoy. I have a G1 and a G6. Have enjoyed both. Both have f 2.0 lenses. I like being able to shoot hand-held without flash. The slower lenses of the newer cameras make that difficult, although I see that the G11 ISO goes several steps higher than my G6. And they brought back the swivel LCD!

[terrie]

bob: The slower lenses of the newer cameras make that difficult, although I see that the G11 ISO goes several steps higher than my G6. And they brought back the swivel LCD!I'd never heard of the G series so when I read the post yesterday I went browsing around looking for info on the G11 and I thought I read that it comes with a 1.2 lens which is pretty fast?

Terrie