Now I see why people pay for Time Capsule

[ktinkel]

My 750GB Seagate drive evidently cannot be formatted to run on a Mac under Leopard. It has been sitting here for months, but I just tried to set it up, but cannot erase and reformat the drive for Mac Extended Journaled.

I found several discussions about this problem with this drive and with the Western Digital MyBook. They advise to plug/unplug, boot/reboot, and partitition the drive instead of formatting in in one volume, but after an hour or so of screwing around like this, I quit.

Disk Utility starts the job, then after 15 seconds or so delivers this error: File System Formatter Failed. I was able to partition the drive at one point, but I just put in 4 partitions that I didn’t want. When it seemed to work, I tried to erase and was back to square one. Disk First Aid also fails.

Another PC drive that I reformatted on the G4 works fine under Leopard. (It is smaller, though — a mere 250 GB.) So I suppose I could try formatting the big on on the G4. But now I suspect it altogether (even though this seems to be a common occurrence).

Any advice or suggestions? I was really psyched to set up Time Machine, too. :(

[ktinkel]

Well, I acted upon a bright idea, and seem to have successfully reformatted this Seagate drive.

I hooked the drive to my good old G4 (running Tiger), and had no problem with reformatting. Then I moved to the iMac (Leopard) and there it was. Time Machine sucked it up.

On the assumption that I have nothing to lose but time, I left it to back up the iMac overnight. Not sure it will be long enough — we shall see.

I am trying to type on my laptop. I usually use a keyboard and mouse with this, but neither is being recognized. This is agony. How does anyone live with only a laptop?

[annc]

Well, I acted upon a bright idea, and seem to have successfully reformatted this Seagate drive.

I hooked the drive to my good old G4 (running Tiger), and had no problem with reformatting. Then I moved to the iMac (Leopard) and there it was. Time Machine sucked it up.

On the assumption that I have nothing to lose but time, I left it to back up the iMac overnight. Not sure it will be long enough — we shall see.

I am trying to type on my laptop. I usually use a keyboard and mouse with this, but neither is being recognized. This is agony. How does anyone live with only a laptop?I do enough work now on my work laptop without keyboard or mouse to have finally acquired a tiny amount of skill with it.

[ktinkel]

I do enough work now on my work laptop without keyboard or mouse to have finally acquired a tiny amount of skill with it.Ouch. That is not encouraging.

Not sure what is going on with my externals, but I also wonder if the laptop’s battery is spent. The night the lights went out a couple of months ago, I tried to use the laptop. It came up, and after about half a minute went into a coma.

We are not using it much, which is probably the problem.

But typing on it makes me nuts.

[ktinkel]

Woke up this morning to find a completed backup. Checked some e-mail, and looked to find a Latest folder that includes not only my main drive but a portable that I have been using.

Pretty good. Now, not to wish for grief, I just need to see how it works in a catastrophe.

There is clearly a problem with Leopard and erasing/formatting alien hard drives. Not encouraging — the next major OS is in the wings. You would think Apple would fix this problem.

[Howard Allen]

I am trying to type on my laptop. I usually use a keyboard and mouse with this, but neither is being recognized. This is agony. How does anyone live with only a laptop?

Is that a Mac laptop? How come it won't recognize the keyboard and mouse? (I suppose that's a rhetorical question: if you knew why...) :rolleyes:

I've used laptops exclusively for the last several years. My last desktop machine was a beige G3, c. 1998. I use a USB keyboard and mouse--when I'm at work I switch the keyboard and mouse back and forth between my MacBook Pro and a WinXP laptop, using a KVM switch. When I'm at home, I have an external 15" monitor plugged into the MB Pro, so I don't even miss the extra screen real-estate. Though, of course, it would be nice to have a 24" or 30" screen...

[ktinkel]

Is that a Mac laptop? How come it won't recognize the keyboard and mouse? (I suppose that's a rhetorical question: if you knew why...) Exactly!

I think last time it did this, I rebooted with both keyboard and mouse turned on, and then they worked. But that should not be necessary (wasn’t in the past).

It is a white MacBook.

[annc]

Ouch. That is not encouraging.

Not sure what is going on with my externals, but I also wonder if the laptop’s battery is spent. The night the lights went out a couple of months ago, I tried to use the laptop. It came up, and after about half a minute went into a coma.

We are not using it much, which is probably the problem.

But typing on it makes me nuts.I assume you keep the laptop connected to power so its battery is charged? I never use the keyboard on my MacBook Pro, because it's pretty well static on my desk. The work one I hump around the country a lot...

[ktinkel]

I assume you keep the laptop connected to power so its battery is charged? I never use the keyboard on my MacBook Pro, because it's pretty well static on my desk. The work one I hump around the country a lot...Well, its battery should be charged. But it doesn’t act like it.

[annc]

Well, its battery should be charged. But it doesn’t act like it.What does the battery meter say the charge percentage is?

[ktinkel]

What does the battery meter say the charge percentage is?When it decided to shut down, the meter said there was no charge. That was the night the lights went out. We closed it up, went out to dinner, and didn’t so much as look at the thing until last night. :o

I will unplug it later and see what the battery does.

[annc]

When it decided to shut down, the meter said there was no charge. That was the night the lights went out. We closed it up, went out to dinner, and didn’t so much as look at the thing until last night. :o

I will unplug it later and see what the battery does.Sounds to me as if it needs either a new power pack or a new battery. This happens to our laptops at work all the time, but they're junky HPs.

[ktinkel]

Sounds to me as if it needs either a new power pack or a new battery. This happens to our laptops at work all the time, but they're junky HPs.I will try to look into it when I get time. The problem is: I do not have any emotional attachment to that white thing at all. :(

[Howard Allen]

Sounds to me as if it needs either a new power pack or a new battery. This happens to our laptops at work all the time, but they're junky HPs.

As opposed to junky Apples? ;) The battery in my MacBook Pro went dead as a doornail after less than a year. I use mine on AC power 98% of the time, and if you don't constantly cycle the batteries, they'll go flat in no time. I've got better things to do than constantly plug and unplug my AC adapter just to keep the battery in peak condition.

Ditto for my Sony VAIO laptop.

A couple months ago I discovered (through MacWorld magazine) that Apple had a MacBook/MacBook Pro battery replacement program because some of their batteries were duds and had short lives. Looking up the details, I was sure that mine must be included, because the purchase date and model were right, and the symptoms identical. I took it to an Apple Store and was told that: 1) my battery's serial number didn't qualify and 2) anyway, the replacement program had expired x months earlier: have a nice day.

AFAIC, all laptop batteries are overpriced junk. The technology just isn't up to the job. I'm loathe to spend the $160 to replace mine, just to have it go dead again in a year. I use a UPS: good old lead-acid. :)

[ktinkel]

Thanks for all that. Guess mine would be out of date, too, then, though maybe I’ll look it up and pester them a little. They should be doing better than that.

I do not use the laptop much, but do want it for portability, so keeping it plugged in is not always a possibility. On the other hand, it is not at all appealing to put $160 into a new battery for an old G4 that can be replaced for a grand with a faster CPU, more RAM, and larger drive. Or spend $1300 and get the aluminum one.

But I sure agree on the subject of batteries. Modern life is a nightmare of charging, recharging, out-of-charge, PITAs (and I don’t even have an iPod or a cell phone)!

[Michael Rowley]

Howard:

I use a UPS: good old lead-acidI think it's unlikely that a UPS uses Pb batteries, although NiFe batteries may not be the solution. Lead–acid batteries don't tolerate being completely discharged, and deteriorate gradually after charge–discharge cycles.

[Howard Allen]

Howard:

I think it's unlikely that a UPS uses Pb batteries, although NiFe batteries may not be the solution. Lead–acid batteries don't tolerate being completely discharged, and deteriorate gradually after charge–discharge cycles.

Michael--

I'm afraid they do. (http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=564&p_created=1010390400&p_sid=zWT5Beoj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MjcsMjcmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0 mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ub CZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWxlYWQgYWNpZA**&p_li=&p_topview=1) I've used several different brands of UPS over the years and they've all used sealed lead-acid batteries. I typically get 3 or 4 years of life out of them, without any fussing around with charge-discharge cycles and calibration routines to optimize battery life.

Same goes for the lead-acid batteries in my vehicles: install it and forget it. They usually last for 5 or 6 years or more--and that's with cold weather starting, occasional draining because an interior light was left on, etc. Can you imagine having to go through all the laptop battery nonsense just to make your car battery last for more than a year? Yikes!

I admit it's not really a fair comparison, because the car battery isn't expected to supply the vehicle with all its power. But for the price you pay for laptop batteries (nearly double the price of a typical car battery), I think they should last a lot longer than they do--especially when you're plugged into AC power most of the time--the "use it or lose it" policy seems a tad unreasonable to me.

Cheers,

[Michael Rowley]

Howard:

I'm afraid they do. (http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=564&p_created=1010390400&p_sid=zWT5Beoj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MjcsMjcmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0 mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ub CZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWxlYWQgYWNpZA**&p_li=&p_topview=1) I've used several different brands of UPS over the years and they've all used sealed lead-acid batteries.In that case I must bow to experience, which trumps theory. But when I used to use a spectrophotometer, which had a battery-powered hydrogen lamp as its source, its batteries were Ni–Fe batteries, because they could be charged overnight and gave a constant e.m.f., which lead batteries wouldn't do. Of course, that was fifty years ago! But NiFe batteries are used in some laptops today, apparently.

[annc]

Our HPs get plenty of off-mains power work, and one I'm responsible for is on its fourth battery and third power pack in the three years I've had it. It was 12 months old when I started work here.

They're all covered by lease arrangements, but it takes weeks to get replacements, even if our people order the right ones, and in the meantime, I'm juggling the needs of the staff who need to use them in all sorts of environments.

[annc]

Howard:

I think it's unlikely that a UPS uses Pb batteries, although NiFe batteries may not be the solution. Lead–acid batteries don't tolerate being completely discharged, and deteriorate gradually after charge–discharge cycles.If you'd ever tried to lift a UPS, you'd know for sure that they do indeed use lead-acid batteries, Michael. :)

[Howard Allen]

The problem with laptop batteries, as I see it, is that there are two very different end-members on a spectrum of users, and the one-size-fits-all battery type just can't cover the whole spectrum.

One end of the spectrum is the person who only uses a laptop for travelling: they want maximum battery load times, and only plug in the AC adapter when they need to charge the battery. The rest of the time, they use a desktop machine. The other end of the spectrum is people like me, who almost always have a source of AC power and usually only want the battery to kick in if the AC power goes off, or to move the laptop to the next room without shutting it down--but we expect the battery to be good after 3 or 4 years, even if we never use it. This is just too broad a spectrum for a single battery type to cover.

What I need is a battery that's reliable for years at full charge but only gives 20 or 30 minutes of load time even when it's at peak condition (e.g. lead-acid). I realize that laptops are marketed to people at the opposite end of the spectrum. Too bad we can't buy batteries to better fit our own requirements. :(

[ktinkel]

Too bad we can't buy batteries to better fit our own requirements. :(Indeed.

Excellent summary.

[Michael Rowley]

Ann:

If you'd ever tried to lift a UPS, you'd know for sure that they do indeed use lead-acid batteries, MichaelIf you had tried to lift an iron battery, you'd know that besides being inefficient, they're notorious for being particularly heavy. They were said to be used in Rolls Royce cars, but as I've never had a Roller, I don't know if that is true.

[Franca]

If you'd ever tried to lift a UPS, you'd know for sure that they do indeed use lead-acid batteries, Michael. :)LOL! Good point. My UPS battery gets put in place and left there till it dies, when I must move it one final time to make way for its replacement. Then my husband gets to lift it to take it wherever he takes old batteries. ;) I think it's the heaviest piece of equipment in my office, though I've got one remaining CRT monitor that might come close ... not interested in lifting either item to find out which is heavier!

[ktinkel]

Although I finally worked this out, the hard way, Sidney found a thread on the topic:

Time Machine tips and troubeshooting (http://www.macworldcanada.ca/a/helpandtips/time-machine-tips-and-troubleshooting/81484ee6c0a800060020cbefa6669ea7/pg001.htm)

It discusses the Leopard and its reluctance to format alien drives.

[Howard Allen]

In the '80s I worked for an oilfield service company in the arctic (Beaufort Sea). One of our pieces of equipment was a UPS unit that measured about 16" x 24" x 14". IIRC it had four car batteries inside. One man couldn't even budge it. It also had the biggest, meanest-looking capacitor I've ever seen--no doubt it could kill you a dozen times over if you touched it in the wrong place. :eek:

[annc]

LOL! Good point. My UPS battery gets put in place and left there till it dies, when I must move it one final time to make way for its replacement. Then my husband gets to lift it to take it wherever he takes old batteries. ;) I think it's the heaviest piece of equipment in my office, though I've got one remaining CRT monitor that might come close ... not interested in lifting either item to find out which is heavier!Yeah, and by then, they've gathered a lot of dust! And dog hair...

[annc]

In the '80s I worked for an oilfield service company in the arctic (Beaufort Sea). One of our pieces of equipment was a UPS unit that measured about 16" x 24" x 14". IIRC it had four car batteries inside. One man couldn't even budge it. It also had the biggest, meanest-looking capacitor I've ever seen--no doubt it could kill you a dozen times over if you touched it in the wrong place. :eek:Eek! dangerous on more than one front.

[Steve Rindsberg]

>> Our HPs get plenty of off-mains power work, and one I'm responsible for is on its fourth battery and third power pack in the three years I've had it. It was 12 months old when I started work here.

A variety of models, or are these all the same? (subtext: Bad apple, this model, or does HP turn out lots of junk?)

Have you looked into third-party batteries and power supplies? A few companies make power bricks that can be used with several different devices. I've got a Kensington thingie that can power dozens of different laptops (and charge an iPod or cel phone or PDA at the same time). Depending on how much you want to spend, you can get one that runs off mains, car or (if your budget takes you to a better class of seat than mine does) airplane power.

http://us.kensington.com/html/16414.html

iGo is another one to google.

[annc]

They're different models, and because they're all leased, we have to get the official replacements from the supplier, unfortunately. They're 'free', of course... :)

[iamback]

A variety of models, or are these all the same? (subtext: Bad apple, this model, or does HP turn out lots of junk?)I used to have an HP laptop at Allaire - its batteries were always giving up (other than that, I liked the machine, called Ada).