A clickety-clack keyboard

[ktinkel]

I just ordered Das Keyboard (http://www.daskeyboard.com/) Professional, sold by the description:

The Das Keyboard Professional provides the best typing experience combined with a modern glossy look and useful features.

Das Keyboard sports best-in-class German-engineered gold-plated mechanical key switches that provide tactile and audio feedback making typing a pure joy. Once you start typing, the tactile and audio clicks create positive reinforcing feedback. It makes typing fun and addictive. Newly added blue LEDs provide a slick look and the new USB hub allows you to charge and sync your iPod or iPhone. Fast typists and gamers will be glad to hear Das Keyboard has an n-key rollover function allowing up to 12 keys to be pressed simultaneously. Finally, the new Das Keyboard has an extra long USB cable that fits through your desk grommet and keeps your workspace neat and tidy.

It costs $129, so a bit more than some of my recent keyboards, but I look forward to a keyboard that makes a little clicking noise instead of muffled thunks. It also comes in a version with no markings on the keys — the Das Keyboard Ultimate, same price.

I will let you know how it is once I get it.

[iamback]

I had a very nice ergonomic wireless keyboard which I absolutely loved - its only disadvantage was that it was rather big and took up a lot of desk space. Until it just stopped working.

Half a year earlier I'd bought a small laptop-size compact keyboard as a spare for only EUR 15. Its only disadvantage is that some letters are by now worn off (the most-used keys, of course: e, n, left shift, insert ad arrow-left are gone). No clickety-clack but it gives good tactile feedback and I can type fast (for me) on it. It even has some programmable extra buttons but I only use the volume and mute keys occasionally. I love how small and light it is, and how I can easily put it aside to make room for something else. My only regret is that I didn't buy more of these "spares"!

[ktinkel]

I had a very nice ergonomic wireless keyboard which I absolutely loved - its only disadvantage was that it was rather big and took up a lot of desk space. Until it just stopped working.

Half a year earlier I'd bought a small laptop-size compact keyboard as a spare for only EUR 15. Its only disadvantage is that some letters are by now worn off (the most-used keys, of course: e, n, left shift, insert ad arrow-left are gone). No clickety-clack but it gives good tactile feedback and I can type fast (for me) on it. It even has some programmable extra buttons but I only use the volume and mute keys occasionally. I love how small and light it is, and how I can easily put it aside to make room for something else. My only regret is that I didn't buy more of these "spares"!Yeah, now that you know you really liked it! I only seem to order extras of things that are a bit disappointing in the end.

I was looking for a new keyboard; this one may be too clickety-clack — guess I will find out. But I like that it is black and has a steeper angle than the one I am using. At least I think I will like the angle …

[Steve Rindsberg]

"The Buzz" on the keyboard is ... um ... kinda idiotic, no?

It has no markings. Huh?
You don't like markings, don't look at the keyboard.
Sheesh.

OTOH, I'll be interested to hear how the marked version feels, he says, klacketing away on his ancient Northgate Omnikey 101 keyboard ... one that has switches to tell it whether it's hooked to an IBM PC/XT or an IBM/AT type computer. By computer standards, this predates ancient and gives dirt a run for longevity.

[ktinkel]

"The Buzz" on the keyboard is ... um ... kinda idiotic, no?

It has no markings. Huh?
You don't like markings, don't look at the keyboard.
Sheesh.

OTOH, I'll be interested to hear how the marked version feels, he says, klacketing away on his ancient Northgate Omnikey 101 keyboard ... one that has switches to tell it whether it's hooked to an IBM PC/XT or an IBM/AT type computer. By computer standards, this predates ancient and gives dirt a run for longevity.No, the one I got has markings. Not sure what the unmarked keyboard has to do with (maybe some arcane stuff?).

I was seduced by three aspects: black (not white, not transparent); the slope (not flat, not slender); and the clickety-clackness.

We shall see if I am pleased.

[dthomsen8]

My black IBM keyboard does have a very small clickety-clack sound, and it has feet to make it slope (or not), and I don't remember what I paid for it, years ago. It is hefty, compared with modern cheap ones that come with computers, but I like it.

[George]

It is hefty, compared with modern cheap ones that come with computers, but I like it.

I used to think the same way, but actually I had just gotten used to one particular old style keyboard. I kept spare ones in storage for back-up. Then, I just decided to try something new, and after a few days, I was amazed. The new thing was so much nicer, that I had to throw out all those hefty ones. And I really like the wide keys in my new choice of design. So how many people really have those little fingers?? Always trying new things does go somewhere, and as that actually is what everyone does, those who don't fall behind.

George

[ktinkel]

My black IBM keyboard does have a very small clickety-clack sound, and it has feet to make it slope (or not), and I don't remember what I paid for it, years ago. It is hefty, compared with modern cheap ones that come with computers, but I like it.I remember those keyboards. IBM made good ones. I believe they were modeled on the Selectric typewriter keyboards, which I loved.

We’ll see if this new one lives up to the hype.

[Steve Rindsberg]

Seriously, I *would* like to hear what you think of it. I'll be next in line to buy one if you like it.

[Franca]

I think mine is similar - black, hefty, with feet - only it is branded Dell.

[Franca]

Looks pretty cool - can't wait to hear if it lives up to expectations!

[ktinkel]

Looks pretty cool - can't wait to hear if it lives up to expectations!I’ll keep you posted.

[Bo Aakerstrom]

About an eon ago when I learned to type on a mechanical typewriter we had little plastic covers to put on top of the keys and as we progressed, more covers were added and in the end we the entire keyboard was covered.

I guess there are better ways of learning to type these days but it did work.

[Bo Aakerstrom]

If you really want to, you can get a speedometer to go with it!
Check their blog for details (just scroll down a bit).

Typed on a Dell RT7D20, a bit old but quite pleasant to use.

Oops, I just checked and it's Windows only, so perhaps not.

[Michael Rowley]

Steve:

I'll be next in line to buy one if you like it.I'd have to be out of my mind to buy 'das Keyboard' at €100, double the price of even the dearest commonly available and about four times as much as common-or-garden keyboards. They're all of them black, all have raisable feet at the back; but I must admit that they usually make no noise. However, that's an advantage if you're trying to convince your wife that you're typing all the time in your office.

[ktinkel]

Seriously, I *would* like to hear what you think of it. I'll be next in line to buy one if you like it.I’ll let you know.

I should have it this next week.

[Steve Rindsberg]

Steve:

I'd have to be out of my mind to buy 'das Keyboard' at €100, double the price of even the dearest commonly available and about four times as much as common-or-garden keyboards. They're all of them black, all have raisable feet at the back; but I must admit that they usually make no noise. However, that's an advantage if you're trying to convince your wife that you're typing all the time in your office.
It depends on how much you use the keyboard and what you're used to.

You might consider it madness, but for me it'd be a very reasonable expense if the keyboard's as good as the old Northgate ones.

Though they may not explain it well, the noise isn't the point, it's the positive tactile feedback you get from feeling more than hearing the click. If the things could feel the same but make no noise, that'd be so much the better, IMO.

I strongly recommend that you neither buy one nor risk using one for any length of time if given the opportunity. You might not want to go back to mushboards again.

[ktinkel]

If you really want to, you can get a speedometer to go with it!
Check their blog for details (just scroll down a bit).

Typed on a Dell RT7D20, a bit old but quite pleasant to use.

Oops, I just checked and it's Windows only, so perhaps not.Besides, my days of speed typing are long gone. I used to do 90 or more words a minute, almost without error.

Now, I don’t want to know how slowly I plod along.

[Michael Rowley]

Steve:

It depends on how much you use the keyboard and what you're used toI admit that I'm not a typist: I didn't have to type before I was 53, for before that I either dictated to a stenographer or wrote in longhand; consequently, I didn't often operate a mechanical typewriter or even an electric typewriter, and, above all, I've never learned touch-typing. But on the other hand, two of my daughters did have lessons in touch-typing when they were young, and type extremely quickly; but they've never complained that computer keyboards are 'mushy'.

[Steve Rindsberg]

Steve:

I admit that I'm not a typist: I didn't have to type before I was 53, for before that I either dictated to a stenographer or wrote in longhand; consequently, I didn't often operate a mechanical typewriter or even an electric typewriter, and, above all, I've never learned touch-typing. But on the other hand, two of my daughters did have lessons in touch-typing when they were young, and type extremely quickly; but they've never complained that computer keyboards are 'mushy'.
I learned to type when I was thirteen or so and have happily pounded away at keyboards of one sort or another since. And as my wife never tires of pointing out, my handwriting bears enthusiastic witness. When it can be recognized as handwriting at all.

I'm not all that good a typist, but I do type mostly by touch and can type much faster and more accurately on one of my old Northgate clickies than on other keyboards. And yes, I'd be as skeptical of that claim as you are, but after having used other keyboards for a few years, I dug out the Northgate again and found I was instantly able to type more quickly and w/o nearly so many mistakes as usual.

As to your daughters, perhaps they've never typed on anything but mushy keyboards. If your diet's been fish and chips all your life, you won't complain about how much better caviar is.

Then again, some don't like caviar. But until you've tried it, you can't make comparisons.

[Steve Rindsberg]

Dell seems to make some pretty good keyboards. My keyboard guru (yeah, yeah, go ahead, laugh <g>), a guy who repairs, rebuilds and sells good keyboards, also stocks and sells a Dell keyboard for a lot less than some of the others. I bought one and like it a lot.

[Michael Rowley]

Steve:

As to your daughters, perhaps they've never typed on anything but mushy keyboards. If your diet's been fish and chips all your life, you won't complain about how much better caviar is.The two daughters that were formerly office workers learned typing in 1979 and 1982 repectively; it is most unlikely that typing schools provided computers keyboards or even electric typewriters at the time.

The diet in England is not mainly fish and chips, but I don't suppose that in the USA is mainly hard roe from sturgeons either! But even if it were, all three of my daughters were brought up in Germany until they left school.

Watch out that you don't get those little black balls between the keys!

[Steve Rindsberg]

Steve:

The two daughters that were formerly office workers learned typing in 1979 and 1982 repectively; it is most unlikely that typing schools provided computers keyboards or even electric typewriters at the time.

The diet in England is not mainly fish and chips, but I don't suppose that in the USA is mainly hard roe from sturgeons either! But even if it were, all three of my daughters were brought up in Germany until they left school.

Watch out that you don't get those little black balls between the keys!
This is wandering off into the weeds, Michael. I don't see that the keyboards they learned on is relevant. You mentioned that they've never complained about their computer keyboards. I was repsonding to that.

The fish and chips were metaphorical, and if I say my metaphorical caviar comes from metaphorical sturgeon, it does.

But no worries, much as I may mix them elsewhere, I never munch metapors at the keyboard. As you say, it gets between the keys and muffles the clicks. Can't have *that*.

[iamback]

The red ones make a more pleasant key contrast and taste yummy, too!

[Steve Rindsberg]

I dunno ... both the black ones and the red ones get all coated with the cat fur that's down there between the keys already. Ptui!Ptui!Ptui!

[cdanddvdpublisher]

Besides, my days of speed typing are long gone. I used to do 90 or more words a minute, almost without error.

Now, I don’t want to know how slowly I plod along.

i definitely know how that goes

[Steve Rindsberg]

Besides, my days of speed typing are long gone. I used to do 90 or more words a minute, almost without error.

Now, I don’t want to know how slowly I plod along.
Maybe you do. You'll feel better about the cost of that new keyboard when you see that your typing speeds up by 50%. ;-)

Hey, watch out for falling limbs. And let's hope they all belonged to the trees and not to the guys in 'em.

[Susie]

You might consider it madness, but for me it'd be a very reasonable expense if the keyboard's as good as the old Northgate ones.

I remember those. They were great keyboards! I think I may still have one rattling around the house somewhere.

[ktinkel]

Maybe you do. You'll feel better about the cost of that new keyboard when you see that your typing speeds up by 50%. ;-)

Hey, watch out for falling limbs. And let's hope they all belonged to the trees and not to the guys in 'em.All done. No accidents. All lovely.

[Michael Rowley]

KT:

All done. No accidents. All lovely.I'd be interested to hear how your new keyboard compares with the Cherry keyboard, whose company makes the switches in the 'Das Keyboard'. Unfortunately, your new keyboard is not available with a UK-keyboard layout; I say 'unfortunately, because the Cherry keyboards are dearer.



http://www.cherry.de/english/products/office_business_g80-3000.htm

[ktinkel]

I'd be interested to hear how your new keyboard compares with the Cherry keyboard, whose company makes the switches in the 'Das Keyboard'. Unfortunately, your new keyboard is not available with a UK-keyboard layout; I say 'unfortunately, because the Cherry keyboards are dearer.I will keep you posted.

[John Spragens]

I'd be curious to know how it does on your Mac. Like Steve, I use a venerable Northgate with my PCs (and have a spare in the closet). I'm using the standard (pre-aluminum) keyboard with my iMac, and between the lack of positive tactile feedback and the curious curvature of the keyboard, I just can't work as quickly on it as I can on the Northgate.

[John Spragens]

Yes ... interesting question. I have a Cherry on the "media server" in the living room, and the feel of those keys is definitely on the soft side, but not total mush. A bit more definite than my Mac keyboard but not the kind of tactile feedback the Northgate gives.

[Steve Rindsberg]

Hold onto it. You can still use them via usb adapters with today's PCs, and there's a guy who cleans and repairs them.

[Michael Rowley]

John:

I have a Cherry on the "media server" in the living roomCherry makes a wide range of keyboard, and have done for years; it will probably have various sorts of keyboard, since various makers of computers used to supply them with their computers. Now, such maker are rare to non-existent, since most buyers are yobs (like me) when it comes to keyboards.

[John Spragens]

And it may be rash of me to assume that they all have the same feel. The one I bought was one of the compact models that's easy to tuck away when I don't need it.

[Michael Rowley]

John:

it may be rash of me to assume that they all have the same feelCherry makes keyswitches with various actions, as can be seen from its PDF document that gives the technical specification:

http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/pdf/keyswitch_cat.pdf

[djb]

I just ordered Das Keyboard (http://www.daskeyboard.com/) Professional, sold by the description:


I want one of these: http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml

[ktinkel]

I want one of these: http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtmlThat is very cool looking. And I am glad to see that someone is preserving the lovely key caps of the past — lately I have been seeing them in crapola jewelry. Tsk. Reminds me of the great loss of type cases, converted for frames for trivial art!

[annc]

I want one of these: http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtmlThat makes me nostalgic for the Remington upright I learnt to type on.

[dthomsen8]

That makes me nostalgic for the Remington upright I learnt to type on.Remington upright, black, heavy, with metal circles around each type key, and a bell for the carriage return. I was given one by a friend of the family, and I learned to type from a book on that old Remington, which was obsolete even when I started on it.

I still have a Sears Corona electric typewriter, useful for forms and checks, but not much else. I can still get ribbons, though.

[iamback]

That makes me nostalgic for the Remington upright I learnt to type on.I learned on one of those - but hated it - the rims on the key caps always made my fingers hurt.

[Steve Rindsberg]

OMG, that is too cool for words.

Just think, if all the people who do this kind of thing pooled all the too much time they have on their hands, they could ... they could ...

what? help me here. But it'd be big. Very very big. And incredibly useless. Yeah. And cool. Cool like you wouldn't beLIEVE.

[cdanddvdpublisher]

As to your daughters, perhaps they've never typed on anything but mushy keyboards.

Like most things - what we learn on is what we train our hands and minds to so anything different - feels - well - different!

[Steve Rindsberg]

Like most things - what we learn on is what we train our hands and minds to so anything different - feels - well - different!
So true so often. But in this case, "what we learn on" was Underwood and Remington uprights and a Smith-Corona portable.

It wasn't until quite some time later (and after a succession of manual and electric typewriters and later computers) that I finally got one of the Northgates as a replacement keyboard. And immediately had to buy a couple more 'cause the people who worked with me, having tried mine, demanded their own.

[Michael Rowley]

Like most things - what we learn on is what we train our hands and minds to so anything different - feels - well - different!Again I repeat that my daugters learned touch typing when computers were almost never used in European offices for typing—they are now 47 and 43 respectively (ungallant of me to reveal that, but truth must prevail, and anyway they don't see this forum's messages). I don't think they even used an electronic typewriter, which has conversion of keystrokes into coded signals in common with computer keyboards.

That said, I must admit that I would prefer a keyboard that needs a certain minimum force for its keys to be actuated: I get too many missed letters through insufficient depression of keys.

[marlene]

'Zackly what I was going to say.

FvH

[ElyseC]

I want one of these: http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml<DROOL!>

[cdanddvdpublisher]

That said, I must admit that I would prefer a keyboard that needs a certain minimum force for its keys to be actuated: I get too many missed letters through insufficient depression of keys.

I have to agree with you there. I like that feedback you get - if you need to press a little harder then you also get that pressure coming back as you lift the finger - tactile feedback I think they call it.

The soft keyboards don't provide that feedback so you get the missed keys. Showing my age but give some of those clicky keyboards any day.

[Steve Rindsberg]

>> The soft keyboards don't provide that feedback so you get the missed keys. Showing my age but give some of those clicky keyboards any day.

But it's a GOOD age. <g>

[Paul]

OTOH, I'll be interested to hear how the marked version feels, he says, klacketing away on his ancient Northgate Omnikey 101 keyboard ... one that has switches to tell it whether it's hooked to an IBM PC/XT or an IBM/AT type computer. By computer standards, this predates ancient and gives dirt a run for longevity.

I eventually wore out my original Omnikey, but at home I'm still using an Avant Prime keyboard that is essentially the same.

[djb]

<DROOL!>

Indeed... I'm SO making one of these when the snow flies and I can't be out in the garden.

[Steve Rindsberg]

FWIW, this guy repairs and sells Northgate and several other keyboard models.

http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/

He's a good guy. Doesn't promise more than he can deliver, delivers on what he promises.

[Steve Rindsberg]

Since you seemed satisfied enough with it other than the fact that it didn't work properly with the Mac, I went ahead and ordered one myself. It came a bit earlier today and I've had just a few minutes to play with it but I'm quite pleased.

The feel is a bit like an old Zeos keyboard I had way back when. The thing had such a light, precise touch that it took a bit of getting used to; that done, I could type quite a bit faster than on the other clicky keyboards I had, and somehow the tactile feedback made it easier to tell when I'd mistyped something. I'd have made a mistake, hit the backspace and typed the correction almost before my eye registered the character appearing on the screen. Yeah. Makes no sense to me either but that's how it was.

And now, is.

I really like this thing.

I'm already fretting: should I buy another one in case the company that sells them goes away? ;-)

[ktinkel]

I'm already fretting: should I buy another one in case the company that sells them goes away? ;-)Oh-oh! You are smitten.

I loved the touch, the tactile and auditory feedback. It was only when I needed to use the special keys that I got a little nuts.

As for whether you should buy another? Who knows. Let us hear what you decide.;)

[Michael Rowley]

KT:

As for whether you should buy another?Have you any idea of the particular type of key (manufactured by Cherry) that is used for Das Keyboard? I should like to buy a new keyboard but am bewildered by the variety of keyboards that Cherry makes, and Cherry doesn't sell retail.

[ktinkel]

Have you any idea of the particular type of key (manufactured by Cherry) that is used for Das Keyboard? I should like to buy a new keyboard but am bewildered by the variety of keyboards that Cherry makes, and Cherry doesn't sell retail.No, but I think I will stick with keyboards hard-wired for the Mac. I am much too set in my ways to change.

[Steve Rindsberg]

The Das Keyboard people have a forum ... you might ask there.

[Michael Rowley]

Steve:

The Das Keyboard people have a forum ... you might ask thereGood idea; but impatience is my second name! I ordered a Cherry keyboard on Friday, and it's on its way now—from the Keyboard Company (UK) Ltd. I hope I ordered the right one, but at the price I've paid, it ought to be.

The 'Das Keyboard' is supplied only with a US layout, unless you order the 'Ultimate' model, which has unmarked keys: that is supplied with a US or 'Euro' layout (whatever that is).

[Steve Rindsberg]

You'll report back on how you like it?

[DTP Guy]

from the Keyboard Company (UK) Ltd. I hope I ordered the right one, but at the price I've paid, it ought to be.Ah - welcome to the UK pricing model!

[Michael Rowley]

Steve:

You'll report back on how you like it?Yes, I shall. It came this morning, in a box marked 'Cherry C83-8000, but the model designation inside is RS-6000 M. But the keys don't click or clack despite their having a distinct pressure point. But I haven't connected it yet.

I suppose you could call it a silent clickety-clack Tastatur!

[Steve Rindsberg]

It looks very much like the one I just got .. keys are laid out in the same pattern, overall size and profile seems similar.

[Michael Rowley]

Steve:

You'll report back on how you like it?Having now connected my Cherry keyboard, model RS-6000 M, and having used it for several days, I can now report that I like it very much. It isn't quite silent, despite the maker's claim that it is, but the clicks are very subdued, despite the distinct force on the keys required to pass the give-way point. It also has two advantages over contempory keyboards: it's white, not black, and it has enlarged letters on every key—very suitable for an elderly (well, old) man. Highly recommended!

[Steve Rindsberg]

Michael,

Very nice ... it must use different switches than the one I've bought.

Mine ... well you could call it silent if you happening to be working next to a chainsaw, I suppose, but you wouldn't be able to hear yourself doing so, so what'd be the point?

It's clicky and quite a bit louder than the average keyboard, but I'm the only one within earshot.

And the keys require very little pressure, so it's a bit difficult to get accustomed to but very very fast once you do.

In any case, it sounds as though we're both well pleased with our new toys. Loverly.

[Michael Rowley]

Steve:

it must use different switches than the one I've boughtI expect the switches to be pretty loud, since one of the reasons for getting just those switches is that they remind people of days of yore. I'm glad my keyboard is more subdued, because my wife is often within earshot, although she's in the neighbouring room (and besides, I always have the wireless on).

[Steve Rindsberg]

Wireless ... as in "computer network" or "the Beeb?" ;-)

[terrie]

steve: Wireless ... as in "computer network" or "the Beeb?" ;-)That was my exact thought...'-}}

And...why is a radio called a "wireless" when it has wires--as in the electrical plug???

Terrie

[Michael Rowley]

Steve:

Wireless ... as in "computer network" or "the Beeb"?I mean the sound broadcasts as practised in later years by followers of Dr Marconi, known as wireless telegraphy. That is just as descriptive as 'radio', which could be used for sound, pictures, and even for detecting anyone trying to get past a librarian without getting his books stamped!

[terrie]

michael: I mean the sound broadcasts as practised in later years by followers of Dr Marconi, known as wireless telegraphy.LOL!! Thank you! Now I know why it's called "wireless"...'-}}

Terrie

[Steve Rindsberg]

That was my exact thought...'-}}

And...why is a radio called a "wireless" when it has wires--as in the electrical plug???

Terrie
Originally, radio replaced the telegraph. Only w/o wires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegraph

[Steve Rindsberg]

Steve:

I mean the sound broadcasts as practised in later years by followers of Dr Marconi, known as wireless telegraphy. That is just as descriptive as 'radio', which could be used for sound, pictures, and even for detecting anyone trying to get past a librarian without getting his books stamped!
I used to work in a library where it was quite simple to get the books out w/o their being stamped. You simply had to heave them out the window and pick them up on your way home. Not that *I* would ever have done such a thing, you understand.

That would have been risking Ann's retroactive wrath.

[Michael Rowley]

Terrie:

Now I know why it's called "wireless"I've never thought of it before, because 'wireless' meant sound that was broadcast without wires, and not, as before with conductors joining the transmitter and the receiver. But now we use it for networks not joined by conductors, whereas it was formerly necessary to have links that conducted electricity, not electromagnetic waves.

[Michael Rowley]

Steve:

You simply had to heave them out the window and pick them up on your way homeYou would have had to have a window that opened sufficiently and was out of sight of library staff; and if those two conditions were fulfilled, you had to be sure that all passers-by were strictly honest, but minded there own busyness.

[Steve Rindsberg]

Steve:

You would have had to have a window that opened sufficiently and was out of sight of library staff; and if those two conditions were fulfilled, you had to be sure that all passers-by were strictly honest, but minded there own busyness.
All of the stated conditions were met and then some. There was a hedge in front of the window so the few passers by passing by were blissfully unaware.

Not that *I* would ever do such a thing, of course.

[Michael Rowley]

Steve:

All of the stated conditions were met and then someGood gracious! It sounds idyllic—and ideal for the thievish. Was there a shop in your neighbourhood with a 'New and used books bought and sold here'?

[Steve Rindsberg]

Steve:

Good gracious! It sounds idyllic—and ideal for the thievish. Was there a shop in your neighbourhood with a 'New and used books bought and sold here'?
Not that *I* would've particpated, you understand, but it was kind of a game the library pages played. Most were avid readers and IIRC the library limited the number of books young people could check out. This was a way around that.

Getting the books back IN to the library was the real challenge. We ... er ... they ... managed that somehow.

[Michael Rowley]

Steve:

Most were avid readers and IIRC the library limited the number of books young people could check outSo was I; the limit for anyone was three fiction (I forget the number of non-fiction), but four or five books a day exceeded my reading rate by quite a long way!

The reference to library pages puzzles me slightly: I have a picture in my mind of little boys with curls, dressed in knee breetches. But of course, Johnston was an ambitious page (in the senate?) at one time.

[Steve Rindsberg]

<g> I think we could have tolerated the curls, but would have rebelled at knee britches. But pages is what they called us. We didn't page anyone and weren't allowed to spend much time paging through the stock, so who knows why they called us that. Mostly, we re-shelved books as they came in.

[Michael Rowley]

Steve:

I think we could have tolerated the curls, but would have rebelled at knee britches. But pages is what they called us.I was thinking probably of the picture When did you last see your father? with a touch of little Lord Fauntleroy thrown in, but on looking at the the COD, I see that page would fit American usage:

'page2
n noun
1 a boy or young man employed in a hotel or club to run errands, open doors, etc.
2 a young boy attending a bride at a wedding.
3 historical a boy in training for knighthood, ranking next below a squire in the personal service of a knight. Øa man or boy employed as the personal attendant of a person of rank.'

Did you have to wear bumfreezers (as worn by hotel pages, even if they're elderly)?

[Richard Hunt]

I remember those keyboards. IBM made good ones. I believe they were modeled on the Selectric typewriter keyboards, which I loved.

We’ll see if this new one lives up to the hype.

Still available from http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/

Made in the USA, not China.

R ichard

[ktinkel]

Still available from http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/

Made in the USA, not China.Actually, I have seen one of those on a friend’s PC. But I need a Mac keyboard, with Mac special characters and key arrangements. I am getting too old to learn new stuff, especially on that basic level. It would be like learning to brush my teeth with my left hand! <g>

[Steve Rindsberg]

Actually, I have seen one of those on a friend’s PC. But I need a Mac keyboard, with Mac special characters and key arrangements. I am getting too old to learn new stuff, especially on that basic level. It would be like learning to brush my teeth with my left hand! <g>
They say learning to do things with your left hand is good for you.* Builds alternate pathways in your brain. Or strong bodies twelve ways. Something like that.

Tell you what, you agree to type using your left hand too, we'll let you off having to learn to do it on a new keyboard.

* If you're right-handed, obviously.

[Michael Rowley]

KT:

But I need a Mac keyboard, with Mac special characters and key arrangementsTry Cherry: it makes more keyboards (and the innards of 'Das Keyboard') than I've ever heard of, and it probably makes keyboards for Macs.

[terrie]

kt: It would be like learning to brush my teeth with my left hand! <g>Gee...I do that twice a day...'-}}

Terrie--left handed...'-}}

[ktinkel]

Hah! I have read that, and have tried it, though not on tooth-brushing, which is at least half the time done in a sort of auto-pilot daze. If nothing else, using the non-dominant hand gets your attention!

I type with both hands, but my right knows only half the alphabet.

[Steve Rindsberg]

I've tried toothbrushing and chopsticks. Messy, messy, messy.
Knives ... nuh-uh, not going there.

At CorelWorld and PPTLive, one of the other help center guys was a leftie and would sometimes leave one of the computers with the mouse set up backwards (ie, so with mouse in left hand, index finger was a left click). THAT was maddening. No matter which hand you held the mouse in, it wasn't going to work out well.

I don't suppose tooling around in a right-hand drive car counts. That was too easy to get used to.

[Susie]

Gee...I do that twice a day...'-}}

Terrie--left handed...'-}}

Me too--Susie, left handed!

[ktinkel]

Gee...I do that twice a day...'-}}

Terrie--left handed...'-}}Ah, gee.

Well what happens if you need to brush your teeth right-handed? <g>

[terrie]

kt: Well what happens if you need to brush your teeth right-handed? <g>I end up with toothpaste on my nose...'-}}

Terrie

[Susie]

Ah, gee.

Well what happens if you need to brush your teeth right-handed? <g>

It can't be done here - I'm too left-sided all around.

[BobRoosth]

I just listened to this on All Things Considered and thought of your thread:

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Vikuiti1/BrandProducts/secondary/optics101/

[imatt]

I use a Matias USB 2.0 Keyboard. It has a 'clickety clack' keys. Interstingly, it has 2 x USB 1.1 ports AND a USB 2.0 port. So I can add a USB 2.0 hard disk or memory stick without any annoyning "you are plugging a high speed device into a low speed port" message.

[ktinkel]

I use a Matias USB 2.0 Keyboard. It has a 'clickety clack' keys. Interstingly, it has 2 x USB 1.1 ports AND a USB 2.0 port. So I can add a USB 2.0 hard disk or memory stick without any annoyning "you are plugging a high speed device into a low speed port" message.I hadn’t heard of this before, and found this review (http://schwarztech.us/reviews/matiasusb2keyboard), which includes pictures of some of its interesting features. Among other things, the keycaps show the Option-key characters as well as the standard set; that must be useful. (I sometimes grope around looking for the dieresis or registration mark, both shown on the keys with this keyboard.)

The USB ports come at a price — you need to plug into two of the ports on the back of the Mac. But it might be worth it for temporary plug-ins — better than finding the ports on the back. But my ports are all in use with things that reject my USB hub (maybe I should just get a better hub!).

There is also a Matias mouse — have you tried that?

Should mention that this is Mac OS X only.

[imatt]

I have a total of 8 USB 2.0 on my PC incl 2 at the front. I also have 4 on my monitor. I could add another two internal USB 2.0 ports to headers on my motherboard. So I am VERY well equipped for USB ports.

I have had this keyboard for a couple of years now and is the best one I've owned to be honest. Obviously I use the Windows version.

I have not tried their mouse - and am not likely to either! I much prefer to use a trackball. I use a MS Trackball Optical - the best mouse I've used, had it for years! Sadly, MS don't make trackballs anymore for some reason...!!!

[ktinkel]

I have not tried their mouse - and am not likely to either! I much prefer to use a trackball. I use a MS Trackball Optical - the best mouse I've used, had it for years! Sadly, MS don't make trackballs anymore for some reason...!!!Lack of popularity, maybe?

But did MS ever make them? Maybe you can find the same thing with a different label on it.

[imatt]

Well MS definately did make them! Trackballs will never be as popular as standard mice, MS or not. That said, many swear by them as they reduce hand movements, great for combatining RSI. On the other hand, many find them difficult to navigate with. It took me a bit of getting used to using a trackball, if Im honest.

It's a damn shame MS do not make them any more. It seems i'm not alone in this sentiment, see below:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?microtrk

I guess I'll keep using mine till it finally does wear out.

[Michael Rowley]

KT:
Should mention that this is Mac OS X onlyIf you mean that keyboard, it is available in a Mac or PC version as well—but only in black.

[sky4forums]

Trackballs will never be as popular as standard mice
True but I love them. I got one with my Mac Plus in 1986 and have gotten one for ever computer I have gotten since then including laptops. It used to amuse me to watch people try to use my computer when they came into my office. Between having the buttons backward (being left handed I always reversed them), there only being a trackball (no mouse) and it was on the "wrong" side, most people gave up.

[ktinkel]

Interesting security arrangement — and very low-cost! <g>

[iamback]

Trackballs will never be as popular as standard mice, MS or not. That said, many swear by them as they reduce hand movements, great for combatining RSI.Actually, reducing hand movement can enhance RSI: it's not movement that causes it, but repetitive movement. Reduce the variety of movement and you are left with more repetition. Plus, which movement is RSI-inducing is highly personal, too.