Using registered trademark symbols

[marlene]

A client has asked me to add the registered trademark symbol to their logo, and said their lawyer wants it in THREE places on the same logo -- next to the organization name, next to the acronym, and next to the "tagline."

I don't know a thing about registered trademark symbol usage, but I don't think I've ever seen more than one registered trademark symbol in a company logo.

Anyone know where I can find documentation on this sort of thing?

[iamback]

Anyone know where I can find documentation on this sort of thing?All I know is that you "trademark" a "thing" by using the trademark symbol with it.

So, if their logo contains three "things" they want to be a trademark, they have to use the symbol with each of those three things. Whether those three things appear in a logo or not doesn't matter.

If all three things are (in addition) registered as a trademark, it's sensible to advertise the fact by using the "registered trademark" symbol with each of those three things. So it just depends on what they have actually registered as trademarks. If their lawyer says to use it, I assume they have. ;)

[Michael Rowley]

Marlene:

Anyone know where I can find documentation on this sort of thing?Just look for ‘registered trademark’ on the Web. I have found this advice for the UK, but there will be similar advice for the USA somewhere:

‘Display your rights
‘You do not have to identify your trade mark as registered. You can use the ® symbol or the abbreviation "RTM" (for Registered Trade Mark) to show that your trade mark is registered, the mark can be registered somewhere other than in the United Kingdom.

‘The ® symbol usually is usually placed on the right-hand side of the trade mark, in a smaller type size than the mark itself, and in a raised (superscript) position; none of this is compulsory. If you do not have the ® symbol available, you can use the abbreviation "RTM".

‘You would break the law (Section 95 of the Trade Marks Act 1994) if you use the registered symbol ® or the abbreviation "RTM", on a mark that is not registered anywhere in the world.

‘Am I breaking the law by using "TM" on my trade mark?
‘No, as this does not indicate that your trade mark is actually registered, only that it is being used as a trade mark. The symbol 'TM’ has no legal significance in the United Kingdom.’

[cdanddvdpublisher]

A client has asked me to add the registered trademark symbol to their logo, and said their lawyer wants it in THREE places on the same logo -- next to the organization name, next to the acronym, and next to the "tagline."

I don't know a thing about registered trademark symbol usage, but I don't think I've ever seen more than one registered trademark symbol in a company logo.

Anyone know where I can find documentation on this sort of thing?


I've never seen the multiple use thing either. While I don't have the answer to your question, it does seem as though using it multiple times is overkill

[Hugh Wyn Griffith]

What I do see is a footnote listing the trademarks and saying that they are and who owns them.

[Michael Rowley]

Hugh:

When I worked for BASF, we had instructions from its patents & trademarks to make sure that our own registered trademarks were marked once the first time the name was mentioned, but to this day people use the registered-trademark symbol every time the name is mentioned.

[LoisWakeman]

Yes - this was standard practice at ICL too (similar to the idea of defining a term or abbreviation only the first time it was used).

[Hugh Wyn Griffith]

House style is house style ...

As you posted, it's not a legal requirement in the UK.

[iamback]

By now, what I'm thinking is simply this - apart from any legal requirements or not:
If the logo actually contains three registered trademarks, there are only two reasonable choices:
- put the registered trademark with each of them; or
- put the registered trademark with none of them

Using just a single symbol would actually be misleading, and thus the worst possible choice - and where would you put it?

[ktinkel]

Using just a single symbol would actually be misleading, and thus the worst possible choice - and where would you put it?The client’s view trumps all of ours, though.

Business people can get pretty strange about stamping their legal rights all over documents.

One argument that occasionally works is to remind the client that when a reader sees trademark, registration, and other legal icons, no matter how small, the copy registers as a sales talk for sure, and it can diminish the effectiveness of an ad. Considering how much effort many companies take to make their ads look like editorial matter, and considering the cost of print advertising or brochures, the little symbols can end up costing a lot!

[Robin Springall]

The client’s view trumps all of ours, though And especially when they've let a lawyer get involved. I'm forbidden to publish it, but I recently had a very short email from a firm of lawyers, and their legal footnote ran to three pages. The email itself was just one word: "Agreed"!

[dthomsen8]

What I do see is a footnote listing the trademarks and saying that they are and who owns them.This is especially common in computer books, but also in books and magazines in general, including ads mentioning the competition.

[dthomsen8]

The client’s view trumps all of ours, though.

Business people can get pretty strange about stamping their legal rights all over documents.
...

Business people and their lawyers can go pretty far in putting boilerplate notices all over web sites.

Although the client's view trumps the developer's view, does the developer have any legal liability from following the client's demands? Perhaps that issue is handled in an agreement with the client, but I would want to be sure.

[ktinkel]

Business people and their lawyers can go pretty far in putting boilerplate notices all over web sites.

Although the client's view trumps the developer's view, does the developer have any legal liability from following the client's demands? Perhaps that issue is handled in an agreement with the client, but I would want to be sure.Dunno what problem could arise, legally, from inserting registration, copyright, etc. icons.

Boilerplate could say almost anything, I suppose, and I have no idea whether a site developer could be held liable for anything, but doubt it. (The courts held that CompuServe — which was more than merely a site developer — was like a tree on which notices were posted, and bore no responsibility for content. On the other hand, they always did have rules about what could be posted, so who knows?

[Hugh Wyn Griffith]

I agree -- it's neat and must meet legal requirements. It deals with the common situatiion where Company X is referring to a product in its literature when the product is trademarked by Company Y.

Any document or advertisement mentioning Windows for example ....

[groucho]

Marlene, don't argue with their lawyer.

Last time I checked, in the US, the ONLY legal use of the marks would be to use "TM" next to a mark that was being applied for. And the circled-R mark only AFTER a mark had actually been granted. And a "tagline" would not qualify for trademark protection at all, it would be registered as a SERVICE MARK, with the "SM" inditia.

In the US, the Patent & Trademark Office has had brochures online describing this all very clearly for many years now. But--you're not getting paid enough to take on the responsibility of practicing law.

After reading the current brochures, I'd memo the client saying "I'm not a lawyer, but what your lawyer is suggesting runs contrary to my experience with trademark issues and contrary to the instructions from the Patent and TradeMark office, would you please confirm that is definitely what you want?"