Interesting word puzzle

[ktinkel]

Last week’s “Car Guys” puzzler” was a word puzzle, and I thought I ought to be able to get it, but so far no luck. Maybe some of you will do better.

Most plurals in English are formed with “s.” A few others have other endings: “ia” (media), for example. But in virtually all cases, the plural and singular have the same root, and many of the same letters.

What plural has none of the same letters as its singular? The plural is archaic — the Car Guys found it in a hobbit book — but it is in most English dictionaries.

What are the two words, singular and plural?

We won’t know the answer until next week, as they just announced that the puzzler is on vacation this week. So you have a week to think about it.

If you get it by the end of Monday, March 5, you can go to the Car Talk site (http://www.cartalk.com/content/puzzler/) and enter to win a big $26 gift certificate that you can spend at their Shameless Commerce division web site. (Don’t post it here before Tuesday, just to be fair.)

Meanwhile, I am wondering how many such word pairs there may be.

[Michael Rowley]

KT:

Don’t post it here before Tuesday

Well, I know of two words that meet the specification, but they're so common that I'm surprised someone has set them as a 'puzzle'. But mum's the word!

[ktinkel]

What plural has none of the same letters as its singular? The plural is archaic — the Car Guys found it in a hobbit book — but it is in most English dictionaries.

What are the two words, singular and plural?Looks as if the answer will be on tomorrow’s Car Talk program (or on the web (http://cartalk.com/content/puzzler/) on Monday, March 12).

[Michael Rowley]

KT:

Looks as if the answer will be on tomorrow’s Car Talk program

The answer can be found in Pharaoh's dreams, any day of the week!!

[ktinkel]

What plural has none of the same letters as its singular? The plural is archaic — the Car Guys found it in a hobbit book — but it is in most English dictionaries.

What are the two words, singular and plural?Just heard the answer.

The singular noun is cow; the plural, kine.

[Michael Rowley]

KT:

The singular noun is cow; the plural, kine

Do Americans not learn about Joseph's being asked to interpret the successive dreams about the seven fat kine and the seven lean kine? Most English people of mature age got that from the Revised Version, but that needn't apply to people taught in US schools—who possibly were more interested in what Potipher's wife invited Joseph to do.

[ktinkel]

Do Americans not learn about Joseph's being asked to interpret the successive dreams about the seven fat kine and the seven lean kine? Most English people of mature age got that from the Revised Version, but that needn't apply to people taught in US schools—who possibly were more interested in what Potipher's wife invited Joseph to do.American public schools do not offer studies of the bible.

I believe some who go to Sunday school do learn about the bible, but I guess not too many of them hang out here (or care about word puzzles, anyway).

[annc]

Just heard the answer.

The singular noun is cow; the plural, kine.Now I remember being taught that, but it was over 50 years ago...

We just call them cows here.

[ktinkel]

Now I remember being taught that, but it was over 50 years ago...

We just call them cows here.Here, too.

[ElyseC]

American public schools do not offer studies of the bible.

I believe some who go to Sunday school do learn about the bible, but I guess not too many of them hang out here (or care about word puzzles, anyway).Or it says "cows" in the translations they most often read.

[Michael Rowley]

Ann:

Now I remember being taught that, but it was over 50 years ago...

Have you forgotten your multiplication tables and your alphabet too? Admittedly they're far more important than the 16th–17th century word for cows.

[Michael Rowley]

KT:

American public schools do not offer studies of the bible

True (I hadn't thought of that), but I should have thought the American Bible Belt didn't get its sobriquet for nothing.

[Franca]

Or it says "cows" in the translations they most often read.Yes - although I'm quite familiar with the story of Pharaoh's dreams, I learned it using the word "cows", not "kine". Oddly, though, as I was trying to think of what the mystery word might be, "cow" as the singular did occur to me ... but I was unable to come up with "kine" as the plural. I was familiar with it but it's been far too long since I've actually seen or heard it. It was buried in the depths of my brain underneath mountains of more recent information and I failed to access it. ;)

[Steve Rindsberg]

And do you want to know what was really irritating? I was half asleep listening to the show and as they led into the puzzler I thought "Oh. Cow. Kine. Easy."

Yet when I'm awake, I have trouble remembering the names of the days of the week, I swear.

[ktinkel]

And do you want to know what was really irritating? I was half asleep listening to the show and as they led into the puzzler I thought "Oh. Cow. Kine. Easy."And I do not think I even knew the word “kine,” though Jack did.

[ElyseC]

And I do not think I even knew the word “kine,” though Jack did.If I knew it as used here, I vaguely forgot it. How I know it is in the pigeon English phrase "da kine" (Hawaiian origin, I think).

[annc]

If I knew it as used here, I vaguely forgot it. How I know it is in the pigeon English phrase "da kine" (Hawaiian origin, I think).The correct term is Pidgin... ;)

[ElyseC]

The correct term is Pidgin... ;)Ah, thanks. Only heard it pronounced. For some reason don't recall seeing it in print. Capped, too, like the name of a real language?

[annc]

Capped, too, like the name of a real language?Indeed! Because it is. ;)

[ktinkel]

If I knew it as used here, I vaguely forgot it. How I know it is in the pigeon English phrase "da kine" (Hawaiian origin, I think).Yes, but it does not mean cows. It is closer to “the kind.”

[ElyseC]

Indeed! Because it is. ;)But, but, but, how can it be considered a single language? I'd bet that if you gather native speakers of such from different parts of the globe, most wouldn't understand each other. Or is this just a convenient way to avoid coming up with names for umpteen different languages? :)

[ElyseC]

Yes, but it does not mean cows. It is closer to “the kind.”Right. I didn't mean to say it meant "cows" just that the spelling was the same as something you hear said in Hawaii.

[terrie]

elyse: Ah, thanks. Only heard it pronounced. For some reason don't recall seeing it in print. Capped, too, like the name of a real language?Thought this might be helpful:

"1876, from pigeon English (1859), the reduced form of the language used in China for communication with Europeans, from pigeon (1826), itself a pidgin word, representing a Chinese pronunciation of business. Meaning extended 1921 to "any simplified language." " (source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pidgin)

Terrie

[ElyseC]

Aha! So there is a little bit of justification for my spelling! Hm...I see those references don't capitalize it...

[ktinkel]

Aha! So there is a little bit of justification for my spelling! Hm...I see those references don't capitalize it...I’ve never seen it capitalized either.

[ElyseC]

I’ve never seen it capitalized either.Whew, thanks.

[JVegVT]

American public schools do not offer studies of the bible.

I believe some who go to Sunday school do learn about the bible, but I guess not too many of them hang out here (or care about word puzzles, anyway).

I'm too lazy to look, but I'm quite sure that it depends on what translation someone uses. Modern translations would probably not use "kine" and would just go with "cows."
--Judy M.

[ktinkel]

I'm too lazy to look, but I'm quite sure that it depends on what translation someone uses. Modern translations would probably not use "kine" and would just go with "cows."Probably true. As I say, I know little or nothing about the bible. That’s why I could never succeed on Jeopardy! <g>

[donmcc]

I thought of cow and cattle, but of course the first letter is the same. Kine is not exactly a word that springs to my mind quickly, although it is one I am familiar with.