Avatar is now a link?

[gary]

I just noticed that instead of displaying an Avatar image the forum now displays a link (titled, for example, "Gary's Avatar) to the image. Was this some sort of recent security change?

[iamback]

I just noticed that instead of displaying an Avatar image the forum now displays a link (titled, for example, "Gary's Avatar) to the image. Was this some sort of recent security change?Actually it's a brolken image and what you see is the alt text. The src attribute of the image tag is an empty string; and the image itself is the content of an a tag, which makes the alt text appear as a link.

I notice a ghost of other changes (mostly a lot of links that now have a rel="nofollow" attribute): it looks as though an upgrade of the forum software was done but somehow something went wrong with the avatars (I checked that mine still exists in my profile).

[ktinkel]

I just noticed that instead of displaying an Avatar image the forum now displays a link (titled, for example, "Gary's Avatar) to the image. Was this some sort of recent security change?Sort of. Big vB upgrade, and we are still trying to settle the aftershocks.

Somehow the avatars — but not the sigs — got lost, along with some other elements. Patience, s’il vous plait!

::

[iamback]

Sort of. Big vB upgrade, and we are still trying to settle the aftershocks.

Somehow the avatars — but not the sigs — got lost, along with some other elements. Patience, s’il vous plait!Nope - like I said my avatar is still there in my profile - what got "lost" was the path to them in the image tag generated. In my profile it seems to be a filesystem path, so apparently it's still sitting on the server - maybe the database has "lost" the file location, or just the name of the directory where they're stored?

Another thing I noticed: clicking on an attachment now opens it in a new window instead of the same one - I don't like that at all, since it takes away my control of how or where to open it.

And I seem to remember there was a "submit" below a post preview; if so, that has disappeared. (Probably a good thing - you could end up with a confusing three different submit buttons on a page with no indication whether they would do the same thing or something different.)

The rel="nofollow" is of course an improvement.

[cirquelle]

Whenever I come to the Desktop Publishing Forum, usually via an RSS feed, the default Display Mode is now Threaded. It used to be Linear. Was this one of the aftershocks? Hopefully, it wasn't intentional.

[ktinkel]

Nope - like I said my avatar is still there in my profile - what got "lost" was the path to them in the image tag generated. In my profile it seems to be a filesystem path, so apparently it's still sitting on the server - maybe the database has "lost" the file location, or just the name of the directory where they're stored?The avatars had been stored in the database. The upgrade moved them to the server, where I can see them clearly, along with the path. What I do not understand is how to fix the PHP (of course!)

Maybe you can help. It looks like this:<img src="$avatarurl" alt="<phrase 1="$post[username]">
$vbphrase[xs_avatar]</phrase>" border="0" />
I see that variable, but do not know where it is defined. Searching on it in templates and stylesheet does not help. So. I tried replacing the "$avatarurl" with the path name "customavatars" but the path is still blank.

clicking on an attachment now opens it in a new window instead of the same oneHmmm. I thought it always opened a new window. But I made a note — no reason not to change it, regardless.

::

[Michael Rowley]

Sort of. Big vB upgrade, and we are still trying to settle the aftershocks.

So am I: I can't reply to a message now unless I press the 'Quote' button first. I thought this was a kind of disciplinary action on your part.

[iamback]

The avatars had been stored in the database. The upgrade moved them to the server, where I can see them clearly, along with the path. What I do not understand is how to fix the PHP (of course!)

Maybe you can help. It looks like this:<img src="$avatarurl" alt="<phrase 1="$post[username]">
$vbphrase[xs_avatar]</phrase>" border="0" />
I see that variable, but do not know where it is defined. Searching on it in templates and stylesheet does not help. So. I tried replacing the "$avatarurl" with the path name "customavatars" but the path is still blank.It might gets its value indirectly from a database query, with a database column being named 'avatarurl'. Can you find where in the database the path to the avatar image is being stored? And did you search all code files for the string 'avatarurl' (not necessarily with a $ prepended)? Even try just 'avatar' (without the quotes). It could be in an included file somewhere.

Any help on the vBulletin support forum (I assume there is one)? Surely others have run into similar upgrade problems.

[ktinkel]

So am I: I can't reply to a message now unless I press the 'Quote' button first. I thought this was a kind of disciplinary action on your part.We have lost the Quick Reply window, but definitely intend to restore it.

On the other hand, messages are much easier to follow when posters use the Quote button! :)

[don Arnoldy]

I see that variable, but do not know where it is defined. Searching on it in templates and stylesheet does not help.There is a field in the Admin control panel where you can set the file path--i don't remember exactly which panel its in (and don't have time right now to go search).

--don

[Franca]

Whenever I come to the Desktop Publishing Forum, usually via an RSS feed, the default Display Mode is now Threaded. It used to be Linear. Was this one of the aftershocks? Hopefully, it wasn't intentional.As far as I know, the default here has always been Threaded Mode. But it's very easy to change to Hybrid or Linear if you are more comfortable with those. We do suggest here that people try using Hybrid or Threaded because it makes the discussions easier to follow - replies actually relate to the parent messages, whereas in Linear mode they do not. And using Linear mode to reply in a thread breaks the threading for the people who do use Hybrid or Threaded. But the choice is there to use whichever mode you prefer! :) I have experimented extensively with all three display modes and prefer Threaded, but I think I may be outnumbered by those who prefer Hybrid.

[Franca]

Another thing I noticed: clicking on an attachment now opens it in a new window instead of the same one - I don't like that at all, since it takes away my control of how or where to open it.It's been awhile since I noticed what the default behavior for attachments was ... in Firefox I always have control by right-clicking and choosing where I want the attachment to open. I prefer that such things open in new tabs and I'm so used to right-clicking now that I usually don't bother checking to see what a site's software does on its own. That said, in this particular vB forum I never wanted the attachments to open in the same window because of the Back button bug. (Which, thankfully, has been killed with this upgrade! Hallelujah.)

And I seem to remember there was a "submit" below a post preview; if so, that has disappeared. (Probably a good thing - you could end up with a confusing three different submit buttons on a page with no indication whether they would do the same thing or something different.)Hm, I do believe you're right! I liked having it there but agree that it could be confusing. As it happens, the result was the same no matter which Submit button one pressed, but one could argue that if one made edits after previewing the two buttons ought to produce different results - one with the latest edits and one without.

[iamback]

We do suggest here that people try using Hybrid or Threaded because it makes the discussions easier to follow - replies actually relate to the parent messages, whereas in Linear mode they do not.They do, actually - each message has a link to its parent message - and with the new version there is an (optional) message id in a quotation as well which is turned into a "View Post" link to that message.

Since each message links to its parent, I always use Linear mode since I find the layout easier on the eyes and I can always jump to the parent message if it's not clear to what a post is a reply.

[Franca]

They do, actually - each message has a link to its parent message - and with the new version there is an (optional) message id in a quotation as well which is turned into a "View Post" link to that message.OK, I haven't checked Linear in the new version till just now and I see that it is easier to navigate to the parent message than it used to be.

Since each message links to its parent, I always use Linear mode since I find the layout easier on the eyes and I can always jump to the parent message if it's not clear to what a post is a reply.But after you've jumped, isn't it sort of a pain to get back to where you were before the leap? Especially if the discussion has gone to multiple pages? I suppose that would just be another right-click situation in Firefox ... but I'd rather not go to the trouble if I don't have to. In Threaded mode I always know where I am and where I'm going. ;)

[Franca]

OK, I am once again being driven crazy by Linear Mode. I hate reading posts out of order. I hate the endless scrolling. Ack. Enough testing ... I'm scampering back to Threaded Mode now.... Thank goodness for choices! :)

[annc]

OK, I am once again being driven crazy by Linear Mode. I hate reading posts out of order. I hate the endless scrolling. Ack. Enough testing ... I'm scampering back to Threaded Mode now.... Thank goodness for choices! :)I don't know how anyone lives with linear mode if they've ever experienced a threaded board in any form. And as for those who then just use the Repy button at the botttom...

[Franca]

I don't know how anyone lives with linear mode if they've ever experienced a threaded board in any form. And as for those who then just use the Repy button at the botttom...Ah ... someone who understands.... :cool: I must be really set in my ways, though. I can't even deal with Hybrid for more than a day or two before I start bumping up against little annoyances. :p

[iamback]

OK, I haven't checked Linear in the new version till just now and I see that it is easier to navigate to the parent message than it used to be.Actually, I think the "View Post" is rather superfluous, and if you want to quote from several messages you have to manually look up the message id to create such a link).

But after you've jumped, isn't it sort of a pain to get back to where you were before the leap?No, of course not. All it takes is hit "Back" on the browser or Alt+Left on the keyboard. :) Easy-peasy.

[Franca]

Actually, I think the "View Post" is rather superfluous, and if you want to quote from several messages you have to manually look up the message id to create such a link).Not for long, you won't. ;)

No, of course not. All it takes is hit "Back" on the browser or Alt+Left on the keyboard. :) Easy-peasy.Ah ... I got out of the habit of using the Back button in here. But 'tis moot anyway - too many other things I dislike about Linear mode. :p

[iamback]

Not for long, you won't. ;)I will, since I always use the plain-text editor. Now, it shows me that I am quoting from message #34091 - but if I want to quote from another message I'd have to copy text, and look up the message # in another window/tab since the view when replying shows only the content of the messages but not their id.

[iamback]

I don't know how anyone lives with linear mode if they've ever experienced a threaded board in any form. And as for those who then just use the Repy button at the botttom...As far as I'm concerned, Linear is just a view but it's still threaded with the parent links in there. Without those I wouldn't use Linear view! And I feel hopelessly lost in a forum that doesn't have threading.

[ktinkel]

There is a field in the Admin control panel where you can set the file path …If you find out where, let me know. In the Images Control section you can set the path for every sort of image except avatars (unless they are included in one of the other groups, but if that is so, I cannot figure it out). And the template uses a $variable.

[ktinkel]

Whenever I come to the Desktop Publishing Forum, usually via an RSS feed, the default Display Mode is now Threaded. It used to be Linear.Our default Display Mode has long been (and still is) Hybrid. But you can easily change it in your User CP settings.

If yours was set to Linear and it has changed recently, please let me know; it would be something else for the list of unintended consequences! Thanks.

[cirquelle]

Our default Display Mode has long been (and still is) Hybrid. But you can easily change it in your User CP settings.

If yours was set to Linear and it has changed recently, please let me know; it would be something else for the list of unintended consequences! Thanks.

Hmm, something isn't right here...

Normally, when I come to the DTP Forum, I do not log in. But I never see the tree display at the top of the message(s). That is Linear Mode. Since both Threaded and Hybrid show the tree display, I assumed that Linear must have been the default. In any case it is what I always see until recently.

Thinking that perhaps I have a cookie set that overrides the default even if I don't log in, I cleared all cookies, closed and restarted the browser and came back to the forum. Still in Threaded Mode.

I logged in, went into User CP, Edit Options. Thread Display Mode was still set to Linear - Oldest First.

Something has definitely changed, at least on my end.

[ktinkel]

Hmm, something isn't right here...
I logged in, went into User CP, Edit Options. Thread Display Mode was still set to Linear - Oldest First.

Something has definitely changed, at least on my end.Yep, seems so. I will put it on the list, though have to confess that right now I am scratching my head. So far as I understand things (and that may not be too far right now), user prefs on such functions always take precedence over defaults.

Is there any chance at all (she asks hopefully) that you changed something in your browser that might have incidentally overridden the setting?

[Franca]

I will, since I always use the plain-text editor. Now, it shows me that I am quoting from message #34091 - but if I want to quote from another message I'd have to copy text, and look up the message # in another window/tab since the view when replying shows only the content of the messages but not their id.That's now. When the upgrade tweaks are finished there should be a Multiple Quote button next to the Quote button.

[iamback]

That's now. When the upgrade tweaks are finished there should be a Multiple Quote button next to the Quote button.Oooh, now that sounds interesting. (As long as we also get the quick reply back, of course :p)

[iamback]

If you find out where, let me know. In the Images Control section you can set the path for every sort of image except avatars (unless they are included in one of the other groups, but if that is so, I cannot figure it out). And the template uses a $variable.Kathleen, any progress on searching the code for 'avatar' or 'avatarurl'? I also note that just before in the generated code there is a (HTML) comment with the text "path to user avatars in message windows": you might try searching for that exact phrase as well.

vBulletin support or forum?

Anything I could look at?

[ktinkel]

Kathleen, any progress on searching the code for 'avatar' or 'avatarurl'? I also note that just before in the generated code there is a (HTML) comment with the text "path to user avatars in message windows": you might try searching for that exact phrase as well.

vBulletin support or forum?

Anything I could look at?No (but thank you!) After spending time in the vB forums and posting there, I discover that we need to update completely to 3.6.0 and then redo our mods and addons in a separate step. Discouraging, but probably cleaner and more stable than trying, like this, to patch the old code with the new.

I made a reverted style today, as a test, and everything (including the avatars) work when we adopt the default 3.6.0. Except our goodies, of course. If we moved over our old header, then it would mostly be an issue of tweaking templates and CSS. And adding back our Get Posts/New Posts dropdown.

Right now I am weary of poking at this inert carcass and think it is past time for supper. :(

[Franca]

Oooh, now that sounds interesting. (As long as we also get the quick reply back, of course :p)Oh, absolutely. I am really missing Quick Reply as well. I normally use it far more often than the Quote button.

[cirquelle]

So far as I understand things (and that may not be too far right now), user prefs on such functions always take precedence over defaults.
Remember, I'm not logging in. So if Hybrid Mode is your default view, that's what I should see. But I'm seeing Threaded Mode. And I used to see Linear Mode.

Is there any chance at all (she asks hopefully) that you changed something in your browser that might have incidentally overridden the setting?
No, that would be too easy <g>. I use Firefox but just checked with Internet Explorer and see the same behavior.

Something else that I've noticed that may be related. Once I click on Display Modes and change from Threaded Mode to Linear Mode, I can no longer click on Display Modes again or Search this Thread or Thread Tools. Clicking on any of these items displays a link in the status bar but nothing happens. They all work fine the first time.

Oh, and if I do log in, I get the following error message when I try to log out:

"An error occurred while attempting to log you out. Click here to log out."

[ktinkel]

Ouch. I hope all these problems will be fixed once we settle the vB version. Then if you still have trouble logging out or see the wrong view, please do tell.

[iamback]

I see progress!!

Quick Reply is back (accompanied by "MultiQuote" which I have yet to try - I don't like the image button though), avatars are back, layout is better.

Some things are worse though, not sure if all of those are still-missing customizations. I know the breadcrumbs were pcopied at the bottom of the page as a customization, so I trust they'll soon be back.

More disconcerting is that the linear view (which I alwyas use) is no missing the oh-so-essential links to the parent message. Which essentially means the threading is gone! Please tell me those links will be back, or I'll have to switch to a (for me) more cumbersome view... :(:(

[edit]Oh, nifty: Edit now opens an editing window in place of the message you're editing. That's certainly a big improvement. Tried the MultiQuote button though and all that happens is that its background turns red. :confused:

[iamback]

That's now. When the upgrade tweaks are finished there should be a Multiple Quote button next to the Quote button.Well, there is now (apart from other obvious signs of progress). Either it's not functional, or I have no idea what it does other than changing its background.

But when I'm replying the thread is still missing both message ids and links to parent messages (the latter completely missing now!) - so no help in quoting (with backlinks) multiple messages while writing. If the MultiQuote is supposed to somehow select all quotes before starting a reply that's not going to work very well. One needs to be able to refer to messages while composing a message.

I never understood why what I'll call the "reply view" is missing all its message ids anyway - that would be a great feature to add as a customization!

[annc]

I know the breadcrumbs were pcopied at the bottom of the page as a customization, so I trust they'll soon be back.My fault, that. I'll have to hunt up the code and put it where it belongs. I rebuilt it all from scratch from the Default layout this morning.

More disconcerting is that the linear view (which I alwyas use) is no missing the oh-so-essential links to the parent message. Which essentially means the threading is gone! Please tell me those links will be back, or I'll have to switch to a (for me) more cumbersome view... :(:(Unfortunately, they seem to be gone for good unless you quote from the originating message, in which case you get a link back to it in the quote.

Tried the MultiQuote button though and all that happens is that its background turns red. :confused:If you click on the MultiQuote button in several messages and then Reply, you get quotes from all the messages you've selected via MultiQuote.

[annc]

So am I: I can't reply to a message now unless I press the 'Quote' button first. I thought this was a kind of disciplinary action on your part.And how much easier your posts are to follow with the quotes clearly marked. ;)

[iamback]

More disconcerting is that the linear view (which I alwyas use) is no missing the oh-so-essential links to the parent message. Which essentially means the threading is gone! Please tell me those links will be back, or I'll have to switch to a (for me) more cumbersome view...Unfortunately, they seem to be gone for good unless you quote from the originating message, in which case you get a link back to it in the quote.
Well, then they should come back!

Navigating to the origin of a quote (especially if a message has quotes from multiple messages) is not at all the same thing as navigating to the parent message of a post! Both are useful - exchanging one for the other is not. In fact, that's a really short-sighted decision om the part of Jelsoft. We don't need less information or have the forum dumbed down.

Losing information about a message's parent is a big, big step backward. :mad:

"Gone for good" can't be true - just pick up the relevant bit of code from the old version! (I must assume you have at least an archived version of the source!) I'll be glad to help with sorting out the code (after my vacation) but I just cannot accept that this upgrade is such a big step backward in threading information.

If you click on the MultiQuote button in several messages and then Reply, you get quotes from all the messages you've selected via MultiQuote.Good grief. That's not useful at all. :(

I already almost never quote a complete message and cannot even imagine quoting several complete messages. I want to be able to quote sections from several messages - and in order to make those link back to their origins I need to know what the message id is of each of the posts I'm quoting from while in reply mode (seeing all messages). Since the normal (at least linear) view already has a link to the message id it should not be hard to add that into the "reply view" as well.

[Michael Rowley]

Ann:

And how much easier your posts are to follow with the quotes clearly marked

Perhaps: but I find the procedure you use (or vBulletin forces on you) a liitle cumbersome, especially if one doesn't want to quote the entire prior message.

[ktinkel]

Perhaps: but I find the procedure you use (or vBulletin forces on you) a liitle cumbersome, especially if one doesn't want to quote the entire prior message.I find it easy to delete portions I don’t want — it is less cumbersome than cutting and pasting, I think.

Another aspect: If you quote without using the “quote” and “/quote” signs (in brackets), the titles shown in thread view make no sense. They repeat what you quoted, which can be very confusing to those who use the thread layout to keep track of messages. If you isolate the quoted text, on the other hand, your first words appear as the title.

Just a thought.

[iamback]

I find it easy to delete portions I don’t want — it is less cumbersome than cutting and pasting, I think.Quite often cutting and pasting the one bit you need is a lot easier than deleting portions you don't want. It depends on the size of the message, and on whether you need to quote only a single portion or several bits. I choose what is most effcient - which varies.

Another aspect: If you quote without using the “quote” and “/quote” signs (in brackets), the titles shown in thread view make no sense.I have no idea what is shown in thread view as I find that quite unusable. (I do see titles if I'm not not careful how I move my mouse but I find them extremely annoying.)

But I never, ever quote without marking up as a quote, so that is moot. And I even want to have the message id information (now extremely hard to retrieve *)) to add the message id to the quote tag, just because I can see this can be useful to others!

As it is now, I have lost valuable information. The threading is no longer there in Linear view so I can't navigate back to a parent message, and if I choose hybrid view I lose the chronology information - which I rely on to view unread messages because the "unread" flag (or whatever the mechanism is) if often lost while I go through the forum from section to section.

So: reading just became harder (a lot), and writing has not become easier. While there are other things that are progress, as far as I'm concerned those are more than offset by the loss of threading information.

----
*) unless you quote loads of stuff you don't want (and then do a lot of deleting again to leave only relevant bits) and have decided before starting a reply on all the messages you want to quote from - not likely in my case as I usually decide on extra quotes while writing or clarifying

[annc]

Well, then they should come back!We'll ask around in the vBulletin forums to see what can easily be done about this. Our biggest problem with the upgrade was the changes we'd made to the templates, so if we can do this within the default templates, then that would be the best solution.

I already almost never quote a complete message and cannot even imagine quoting several complete messages. I want to be able to quote sections from several messagesThat's exactly what the new Quote and MultiQuote functions do! :) But not knowing which bits of each message you want to quote back, vBulletin gives you the lot, so that you can delete the bits you don't want to quote. If you quote back this message, you will see the message number within the opening quote tag. And it becomes a link back to the message when posted.

[annc]

I find the procedure you use (or vBulletin forces on you) a liitle cumbersome, especially if one doesn't want to quote the entire prior message.As Kathleen says, it's a simple matter to delete the bits you don't want to quote. And by not using the vBulletin quote, which makes the quoted text much clearer, you also lose the link back to the original post.

[Michael Rowley]

I find it easy to delete portions I don’t want — it is less cumbersome than cutting and pasting, I think.

Sometimes deleting the parts I don't want to quote is easier, but rarely. I had at first thought that the 'quote' worked for the portions of the text you wanted to quote, but I find that is not so.

I forget which mode of displaying the messages I selected: I think it was the hybrid view, which links the messages to the one you're replying to. I'm sorry if not using the 'quote' mechanism upsets other views.

Have you been able to correct the behaviour of the forum software so that you can use accented letters that aren't accessible from the keyboard direct? I suppose it's too much to expect that it understands Unicode, but I find having to keep to unextended ASCII is more than a little frustrating at times.

[Michael Rowley]

As Kathleen says, it's a simple matter to delete the bits you don't want to quote.

It's not always so convenient as pasting in the quoted matter (it can be), but I grant you that it is within my capability. And forming boxes around the italic quoted text is, in my opinion, barbaric; but each to his own taste (a view that you don't seem to share).

[Franca]

As Kathleen says, it's a simple matter to delete the bits you don't want to quote.As you know, I always use the vBulletin quoting, but I'm with Michael and Marjolein on this: deleting the bits you don't want from the entire message is not always easier. You have to add the quotes back in when you're done choosing the bits you want to keep, and you have at least one open quote without a close, and one close without an open - so it's not a matter of just pressing the quote button to enclose those. I find all the repair work to be more of a pain than snipping and pasting the bits I want and applying the vB's open/close quotes myself. And I'm not as thorough as Marjolein WRT the info I include in the quoted bits. It's even more cumbersome for her!

[Franca]

Actually, I think the "View Post" is rather superfluous, and if you want to quote from several messages you have to manually look up the message id to create such a link).

Not for long, you won't. ;)

I will, since I always use the plain-text editor. Now, it shows me that I am quoting from message #34091 - but if I want to quote from another message I'd have to copy text, and look up the message # in another window/tab since the view when replying shows only the content of the messages but not their id.

That's now. When the upgrade tweaks are finished there should be a Multiple Quote button next to the Quote button.

Well, there is now (apart from other obvious signs of progress). Either it's not functional, or I have no idea what it does other than changing its background.

But when I'm replying the thread is still missing both message ids and links to parent messages (the latter completely missing now!) - so no help in quoting (with backlinks) multiple messages while writing. If the MultiQuote is supposed to somehow select all quotes before starting a reply that's not going to work very well. One needs to be able to refer to messages while composing a message.Well, I just tried it here. It should be easy enough in either Hybrid or Linear view to read through the discussion leading up to the message you'd like to reply to before actually starting to compose your reply. Just click the multi-quote button on each message you'd like to include and finish up with clicking the multi-quote and quote buttons on the message to which you're attaching your reply.

I'm currently in Hybrid mode; the entire discussion is available below while composing my reply just in case ... but I found that I'd selected all the necessary bits before starting my reply. It required a small shift in the way I think about composing replies but now that I've done it once I think it will be quite quick and easy in the future.

[Michael Rowley]

Franca:

I always use the vBulletin quoting

I didn't know that it was possible to do what I have just done, but it seems there is a way round quoting the whole message and deleting what's not wanted.

[iamback]

We'll ask around in the vBulletin forums to see what can easily be done about this. Our biggest problem with the upgrade was the changes we'd made to the templates, so if we can do this within the default templates, then that would be the best solution.Assuming that Jelsoft's code is reasonably organized it really cannot be hard - especially not if you can put old and new code side by side and compare. (I have good tools for that, and I'm quoite willing to help! I just don't have time before my trip to Asia.)

That's exactly what the new Quote and MultiQuote functions do! :) But not knowing which bits of each message you want to quote back, vBulletin gives you the lot, so that you can delete the bits you don't want to quote.The difference between the "bits" I want to quote and "the lot" you're going to get (deleting a lot more than you want to quote is actually extra work) is only half the problem. It's not really unusual that while composing you think of something else to refer to - composing is a process, and it's quite normal to not think of all the bits you need to quote to clarify what you want to convey. So you need to be able to quote (copy, paste, add name, add message id) while composing.

If you quote back this message, you will see the message number within the opening quote tag. And it becomes a link back to the message when posted.And that is exactly why I want to have access to message ids when replying! So I can add those ids when quoting a bit from a message (or bits from various messages) while writing a reply.

BTW, I now note that that link has become an icon - a confusing one since it points forward - if it should be an arrow (why?) it should point {b]back[/b] of course.

[iamback]

Sometimes deleting the parts I don't want to quote is easier, but rarely.I agree. Try using the plain-text editor (and Quick Reply if you wish), and copy-and-paste the bit(s) you want to quote, and slap "quote"|"/quote" (in square rather than angle brackets) tags around them; add a name to show who you're quoting. That has always worked and will continue to work.

The one problem is that there is no easy way to get the message id you're quoting from for a citation backlink - not yet at least- unless you use (Multi)Quote. But we didn't have those links before and while useful, they don't constitute threading links.

I forget which mode of displaying the messages I selected: I think it was the hybrid view, which links the messages to the one you're replying to.Regardless of which view you use, if you use Quote or Quick Reply in a message, your reply will be linked to the message you're replying to. The only extra with Quote is that it adds the "quote"|"/quote" tags for you, but it's easy enough to add them while typing in a quick Reply or contining to write something that started out as a "Quote" reply. I do it all the time (both).

I also deliberately leave the citation backlink out from any second (or more) quote from the same message - too much clutter if you're quoting several bits.

[Michael Rowley]

the message id

To say nothing of the ego and the superego . . .

[Franca]

Michael,

I didn't know that it was possible to do what I have just done, but it seems there is a way round quoting the whole message and deleting what's not wanted.So ... did you create your own quote in Quick Reply (as I often do) or have you done something else? Do tell! :cool:

[Franca]

I agree. Try using the plain-text editor (and Quick Reply if you wish), and copy-and-paste the bit(s) you want to quote, and slap "quote"|"/quote" (in square rather than angle brackets) tags around them; add a name to show who you're quoting. That has always worked and will continue to work.And if you use the enhanced editor you don't have to remember and type in the codes yourself. But I know you knew that. ;)

[Michael Rowley]

Franca:

did you create your own quote in Quick Reply

Yes, I pasted the bit I wanted to quote, selected it, and pressed the 'Quote' button (the button on the right of the row of buttons). But all it did was put the quoted matter in a box, which I don't approve of and is no quicker than selecting 'Italic', though it does save me pressing italic again afterwards.

[ktinkel]

Yes, I pasted the bit I wanted to quote, selected it, and pressed the 'Quote' button (the button on the right of the row of buttons). But all it did was put the quoted matter in a box, which I don't approve of and is no quicker than selecting 'Italic', though it does save me pressing italic again afterwards.It does one other (important) thing: It takes the quoted text out of your message. Then the beginning of your comments becomes the title of the message in the thread view, which is very useful.

[don Arnoldy]

We'll ask around in the vBulletin forums to see what can easily be done about this. The link to the parent message was something *we* added to the template. It can be put back.

--don

[iamback]

To say nothing of the ego and the superego . . .
:D

[iamback]

And if you use the enhanced editor you don't have to remember and type in the codes yourself. But I know you knew that. ;)For me that's a "dehanced" editor :) I'm much faster just typing.

[iamback]

The link to the parent message was something *we* added to the template. It can be put back.That would be a great help!

[Michael Rowley]

KT:

It does one other (important) thing: It takes the quoted text out of your message. Then the beginning of your comments becomes the title of the message in the thread view, which is very useful.

So it does. But if you think repeating the first few words of a message is 'the title', I don't agree that it is (or that it's important): the title of the thread is the only thing of importance, and the message should have some bearing on it.

[annc]

The link to the parent message was something *we* added to the template. It can be put back.Thanks, Don. I'll go looking for it.

[Franca]

So it does. But if you think repeating the first few words of a message is 'the title', I don't agree that it is (or that it's important): the title of the thread is the only thing of importance, and the message should have some bearing on it.Even after all this time I am still of two minds about this. Seeing the first few words of a message used as a "title" was something that once really annoyed me. ("Fingernails on a blackboard" type of annoyance.) I preferred that threads and messages have Actual Titles, and that message titles would not change unless the subject of the discussion changed. (Assuming people remembered to change the title, this sometimes made thread drift a bit easier to spot.) Now, however, the reply titles are always different from the thread title.

If I remember rightly, in the old Compuserve forums only the threads had titles - messages within the threads did not. But that was a completely different format and I used an OLR. I've come around now to seeing the value of having the first few words form the "message title" (even though it's not really a "title") in the threaded views of forums like these. It still looks odd to me but it does make it easier to remember and locate a particular message if you want to find it again.

Anything is better, however, than having bits of quoted matter from the previous message become the message title, so in this one respect using vB's own quoting system is preferable to all other quoting techniques. You can still type in your own title to any reply if you choose, and that is what will appear rather than the first few words of your message.

[ktinkel]

So it does. But if you think repeating the first few words of a message is 'the title', I don't agree that it is (or that it's important): the title of the thread is the only thing of importance, and the message should have some bearing on it.I grant you that the first few words of a message are not literally “a title.”

However, in this system, they are a way to tracking the flow of the discussion.

[Michael Rowley]

Franca:

Anything is better, however, than having bits of quoted matter from the previous message become the message title

Yes, you have a valid point there.

[Michael Rowley]

KT:

However, in this system, they are a way to tracking the flow of the discussion

Yes, Franca has made that point; however, a discussion among several people usually involves repeating the name (if known) of the person you're replying to, and a name is usually the opening word in any of my messages.

[ktinkel]

. . . a name is usually the opening word in any of my messages.So? It still works when you use the Quote function. Take a look at the screen shot attached.

[Franca]

So? It still works when you use the Quote function. Take a look at the screen shot attached.Yes, and that's why I've mostly stopped using people's names ... I used to prefer using names as I thought the forum was more personal that way, but it seemed sort of silly to me to have the message greeting become part of the message "title".

[ktinkel]

I used to prefer using names as I thought the forum was more personal that way, but it seemed sort of silly to me to have the message greeting become part of the message "title".Not sure. It does alert that person of a reply if they browse the thread outline.

Not sure many do that, though. (I do, especially when I have been away and think I might have missed something.)

[Franca]

Not sure. It does alert that person of a reply if they browse the thread outline.True - hadn't thought of that.

Not sure many do that, though. (I do, especially when I have been away and think I might have missed something.)Well, I'm used to browsing the thread outlines since I normally use Threaded mode. Still do, in Hybrid.

[Michael Rowley]

KT:

Take a look at the screen shot attached.

You know, I do see my own messages on my own computer screen and the way they're introduced: there's no need for a screen shot.

[ktinkel]

You know, I do see my own messages on my own computer screen and the way they're introduced: there's no need for a screen shot.Ah, well, you seemed to suggest that your use of the personal address caused a quoting problem. So I demonstrated.

Beg your pardon.

[Michael Rowley]

KT:

Ah, well, you seemed to suggest that your use of the personal address caused a quoting problem. So I demonstrated.

Beg your pardon.

It was Franca who said that she found the name of the addressee odd in the introductory line that the software uses as a 'title'. I don't find it so, but I never read those anyway, except when my attention is drawn to them.

Apology accepted, but unnecessary (I was amused by your screen shot rather than annoyed).

[cirquelle]

Ouch. I hope all these problems will be fixed once we settle the vB version. Then if you still have trouble logging out or see the wrong view, please do tell.
I don't know if that has occurred yet, but I thought I'd let you know that log out is fixed but display mode is not.

When I come to the forum, the default view is always Threaded Mode. I hate Threaded Mode so I change to Linear Mode. This sets the following cookie in my browser:

www.desktoppublishingforum.com bbthreadedmode
Content: linear
Expires: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:02:59 PM

Now, as long as I don't log in, everything is fine. I can shut down Firefox, even shut down the computer, and the next time I come back to the forum, the forum software apparently reads this cookie and I am still in Linear Mode. Just like I used to be.

But, if I do log in, even though this cookie has an expiration date of August, 2007, it gets deleted when I log out, so next time I come back to the forum, I'm in that dratted Threaded Mode again!

Why is the forum software deleting cookies that are not set to expire until 2007? Shouldn't it only be deleting end-of-session cookies?

[ktinkel]

Why is the forum software deleting cookies that are not set to expire until 2007? Shouldn't it only be deleting end-of-session cookies?No idea. On my system, Firefox can delete cookies, or I can; never have had any other agency do so.

I will rummage through vBulletin’s innards — try to see if this is possible or likely.

[don Arnoldy]

IWhy is the forum software deleting cookies that are not set to expire until 2007? Shouldn't it only be deleting end-of-session cookies?Because that is what "log out" means--to delete the cookies. It is designed to be used when you log in from non-private machines, where you don't want to leave the cookie behind.

if you go to the "User CP," then choose "Edit Options..." under "Settings and Options," you can select your prefered display mode under " Thread Display Options." This will store your choice in the user record in the database--instead of just in a cookie.

--don