Little book on Univers

[ktinkel]

Since I commented on a book on Helvetica it is only fair to mention a book about the other sans serif classic from the 1950s: The Univers by Adrian Frutiger by Friedrich Friedl (ISBN 3-931317-78-1).

This is a sweet, very small book (6 X 6-1/4 inches, 48 pages). It tells the story of development of Univers, the first type family designed from the ground up on a coherent grid of 21 widths, weights, and styles. (Frutiger later used the same scheme for Frutiger, and Linotype used it for Helvetica Neue.) In 1997, Linotype Frutiger was released, with 59 fonts on an expanded grid. The original had been designed for both lead and photo-type; the new one is adapted for digital systems.

Univers was first released in 1957, about the same time as Helvetica. Friedl says that while Helvetica “had a general clarity and a modern, timeless and neutral effect without any conspicuous attributes (lending to its great success), Univers expressed a factual and cool elegance, a rational competence.”

That “cool elegance” must be what prompted grunge font-maker Neville Brody to call Univers “the coldest face ever designed.” (This was quoted by Simon Loxley in Type: The secret history of letters.) Do you agree? I don’t, though it is more rational than many of today’s popular sans serif faces.

My first experience of Univers was in setting type on the IBM Composer. It was constrained in units compared to a “real” typesetting system, and I became frustrated by that experience, so ignored Univers for at least a decade. But I came back to it in the 1980s, and the more I used it, the more I liked it — more than Helvetica, my (and almost every designer’s) favorite of the 1960s. This book conveys some of the passion with which Univers was received.

This book is out of print (in the U.S., anyway) and a bit hard to find, but Amazon lists copies from other dealers for $20 or so, in English and in the original German. It is a good book, worth looking for.

[ktinkel]

Just for fun I have attached a page showing a bunch of sans serif fonts, including Univers and Helvetica.

Can you spot those two? Can you identify the others?
Which do you prefer?

[iamback]

That “cool elegance” must be what prompted grunge font-maker Neville Brody to call Univers “the coldest face ever designed.” (This was quoted by Simon Loxley in Type: The secret history of letters.) Do you agree? I don’t, though it is more rational than many of today’s popular sans serif faces.Agree? No. But my all-time favorite sans-serif font is Futura, precisely because it is so very rational. :)

[iamback]

Just for fun I have attached a page showing a bunch of sans serif fonts, including Univers and Helvetica.

Can you spot those two? Can you identify the others?
Which do you prefer?It's rather fuzzy... Can you do a sharper one? Still, I'll bet the top one is Futura.

To spot differences, good letters to look for are e, a, g and various descenders (in the top one: the completely straight j makes it immediately recognizable as Futura or something very closely related).

[ktinkel]

It's rather fuzzy... Can you do a sharper one? Still, I'll bet the top one is Futura.

To sport differences, good letters to look or are e, a, g and various descenders (in the top one: the completely straight j makes it immediately recognizable as Futura or something very closely related).Very good! Futura Book, in fact.

I love Futura, though think it is difficult to set in text sizes. But I have a wonderful book (found at a yard sale for a dollar!) set in foundry Futura. It was written by Paul Renner, but on color: Color, order and harmony.

I scanned in a couple of spreads and using them as a template, tried to duplicate the pages with digital fonts, and was really disappointed.

Anyway, is this image any better? (Trying to avoid forum size limits; if all else fails, I can upload it to my server.)

[iamback]

Very good! Futura Book, in fact.:) I guess I studied that font so much that it'll jump out at me anywhere.

I love Futura, though think it is difficult to set in text sizes. But I have a wonderful book (found at a yard sale for a dollar!) set in foundry Futura. It was written by Paul Renner, but on color: Color, order and harmony.I've seen several books using Futura - this could actually be one of them. Difficult indeed, but it can work for certain types of book. "Display" kind of books, with bits of text clarifying the images, for instance. I wouldn't use it for a novel though.

Anyway, is this image any better? (Trying to avoid forum size limits; if all else fails, I can upload it to my server.)Much better. But a pity there's no 'g' in there. Still, I have little trouble seeing the differences between the various fonts, but apart from Futura am at loss putting a name to them. I hope you'll summarize them all once everyone's had a go!

[ktinkel]

I've seen several books using Futura - this could actually be one of them. Difficult indeed, but it can work for certain types of book. "Display" kind of books, with bits of text clarifying the images, for instance. I wouldn't use it for a novel though.This book is dense with text, looks like 16 point with a point of leading, 34 picas wide, getting roughly 12 words to the line. Justified, and with that obnoxious practice of no paragraph indents, which I loathe as a failed bit of theory.

Aside from that, it is readable, but I would not want to read a novel set this way. That may be habit as much as anything — I have a mental image of how a novel should look. Maybe if this were leaded a bit more or a little smaller with a narrower measure — don’t know exactly.

In any event, to the extent this works, the credit goes to the use of foundry type. There is no digital font I know of that can reproduce this text, and even when I come close, it is harder to read. The slight texture of type pressed into the paper also contributes to readability (and the pleasure of looking at the page).

Much better. But a pity there's no 'g' in there. Still, I have little trouble seeing the differences between the various fonts, but apart from Futura am at loss putting a name to them. I hope you'll summarize them all once everyone's had a go!I will make a column of g — should have thought of that. It is often the most distinctive character.

[ktinkel]

But a pity there's no 'g' in there.Here you go — the g from each of the typefaces, numbered to avoid confusion.

[iamback]

Here you go — the g from each of the typefaces, numbered to avoid confusion.Thanks. Nicely making my point about which letters to watch for differences. ;-)

[ktinkel]

Thanks. Nicely making my point about which letters to watch for differences. ;-)Sure. Probably makes it too easy, though.

[Norman Hathaway]

i don't think neville's correct about Uni being the coldest, though i do feel it's chilly, which is a good thing in my opinion. but it has more stress than hel, so appears more calligraphic.

i think it's a hugely important face, more so than helvetica, but i love helvetica as well. can't say the same for futura however. i understand it's quasi deco/swank appeal, but find it overly geometric for most uses.

i think mr. frutiger may be remembered as the most important type designer of the 20th century. (and no, i am NOT forgetting about Miller)

[ktinkel]

i don't think neville's correct about Uni being the coldest, though i do feel it's chilly, which is a good thing in my opinion. but it has more stress than hel, so appears more calligraphic.

i think it's a hugely important face, more so than helvetica, but i love helvetica as well. can't say the same for futura however. i understand it's quasi deco/swank appeal, but find it overly geometric for most uses.

i think mr. frutiger may be remembered as the most important type designer of the 20th century. (and no, i am NOT forgetting about Miller)Frutiger is certainly in the running, that’s for sure. Very influential — we see his fingerprints everywhere today.

Carter is a completely different kind of type designer. He doesn’t seem to specialize in initializing styles so much as he makes them work.

I agree about Univers. I had to overcome a youthful distaste for it, as I had to set acres of it on an IBM Composer, which was based on 9 (I think) units, not nearly enough. But I came around a couple of decades ago.

Not sure I have a strong opinion of its emotional color, however.

[Norman Hathaway]

I had a period of only using it for around 10 years, but haven't used it in a long while now. I've used the URW knock off of Helvetica recently and admire it, but I don't really 'believe' in constructed faces of that type, even though it is quite handsome.

I'm definitely still in awe of Akzidenz Grotesk, and probably use it, and Documenta Sans for the majority of my work.

What do you use the most aside from Miller?

[ktinkel]

I'm definitely still in awe of Akzidenz Grotesk, and probably use it, and Documenta Sans for the majority of my work.

What do you use the most aside from Miller?I have used a fair amount of Akzidenz Grotesk. But I do so little design work now (and for more than 10 years) that I cannot say that I use any typeface. I am often working with them, to see what is good and bad, how they set, and so on, but that is not the same thing as doing a job with a font.

For pragmatic reasons, I used a lot of Utopia because I worked on magazines printed on newsprint. It is a good, practical little face, possibly with the qualities you admire in Dutch types. But it never got me excited.

[Norman Hathaway]

I've used Oranda for that before. You familiar with that one?

Just looked up Utopia...
I get frightened by anything with that large of an X height.
Exception to that peeve is Vectora, which I'm trying to sell a client on.

[ktinkel]

I've used Oranda for that before. You familiar with that one?

Just looked up Utopia...
I get frightened by anything with that large of an X height.
Exception to that peeve is Vectora, which I'm trying to sell a client on.I love Oranda and have used it a lot, though not for newsprint.

Vectora is instantly appealing, and I have had it on my short list for a few jobs. But in the end I have never found a way to use Vectora effectively. Part of it is its irritants: The nasty chattering effect of the r before t or f; and the way the t looks undersized and pitiful when next to i, y, and maybe a couple of other characters. And the runty s, especially sad when next to h. It gets away with these quirks better in the lighter weights (45 and 55).

Utopia is interesting. When three different newsprint-using clients were offered trial layouts in Century, Linotype Centennial, and Utopia, all three immediately preferred Utopia. It works better in narrow columns, is readable at small sizes, and is more graceful on the page (better color, for one thing). Looking at it in a vacuum, though, I agree that it doesn’t look like much.

[Norman Hathaway]

Vectora is a super space saver. It does have quirks, but for some reason quirks are starting to have appeal to me. Must be the pendelum swinging back from computer perfection perhaps-

I would've picked Utopia over those others too!
What do you think of The Serif?

[ktinkel]

Vectora is a super space saver. It does have quirks, but for some reason quirks are starting to have appeal to me. Must be the pendelum swinging back from computer perfection perhaps-

I would've picked Utopia over those others too!
What do you think of The Serif?I find all those TheMix faces just bewildering (and I have never used any of them). De Groot is an interesting designer, I must say. I find his take on Frutiger — guess everyone has to do one — (Corpid) very interesting looking. But again, I have never used it.

My favorite odd sans is probably Today Sans (http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/efscangraphic/today-sans-sb/) (only the SB or text weights are shown there; FontHaus sells the entire range (http://www.fonthaus.com/products/fonts/list_alpha.cfm/alpha/T/samples/15/format/ALL?CurrentPage=35)). The Scangraphic set (which I have) comes in text and display styles, which makes it very useful.

I don’t seem to have a serif passion right. Zapf Renaissance (http://www.fonthaus.com/products/fonts/view.cfm/sku/EF35121.cfm) is lovely (also from Scangraphic), and I have used it on private projects, but is probably too expressive for most ordinary purposes.

[Norman Hathaway]

Good call.
Not many know about Today Sans. I like it very much.
I also like the reworked Linotype Syntax.

[ktinkel]

Not many know about Today Sans. True, and that is too bad, as it is in its own way quite influential. And I really like the way it sets. (The italic p can be annoying, however.)

Not sure why it is so unknown. But it was first released by Scangraphic at a time when they had little market presence. Now I see that E&F has brought out a set of the text fonts; not sure they have done the display, and part of the strength of this family is that it has fonts for both size ranges.

Albert Jan Pool gave Today a nice boost in his essay in Types Best Remembered. Not sure how influential that may have been, however.

One day I should give you a talking-to about Futura. But not now. <g>