Flippin' mug shots

[marlene]

No, it's not a euphemism, I'm really talking about flipping mug shots.

One of my clients frequently asks me to flip them horizontally (in a newsletter that contains several mug shots of the writers and contributors) because she doesn't like people to be facing the edge of the page. She wants them to be looking toward the binding, says that's the correct way to orient mug shots, and they should be flipped if necessary.

I have been refusing to do the flippin', though, because it just plain seems wrong. Faces are not symmetrical, and hair would be parted on the wrong side, birthmarks would be relocated, chipped teeth would be moved, etc.

Although I've always won these battles thus far, I'd like to have backup! I have never heard of anyone flipping faces because they're gazing off-page.Has anyone?

mxh

[don Arnoldy]

I have been refusing to do the flippin', though, because it just plain seems wrong.Good for you!

First, the proper term is "flop" the photo--one flips flapjacks. <G>

Second, she is right that generally, photos shouldn't lead the readers eye off the page.

Third, there is a famous (well, as famous as these things get) libel case, where a newspaper flopped a photo of a baseball pitcher and he sued and won. The flopped photo made him appear to be a right-handed pitcher instead of a left-handed one, and right-handed pitchers (at least, at the time) were considered less-valuable--thus his earning potential was diminished by the photo

Generally, reputable news organizations have strict policies against altering photos in any way--including flopping.

[Steve Rindsberg]

I read someplace that many portrait photographers used to flop the negatives before proofing them. The customer was used to seeing his/her face in the mirror, so the photo looked more normal if flopped.
Makes sense.

[Franca]

Although I've always won these battles thus far, I'd like to have backup! I have never heard of anyone flipping faces because they're gazing off-page.Has anyone?Nope, me neither. Just say, "NO!" There's the same convention about car shots - they're not supposed to be driving off the page. But flopping is cheating - bad, bad, bad. You can't get away with it with race cars anyway because they have visible writing on them. ;-)

[Franca]

Interesting ... did the photographer then print the final portrait correctly? Because the subject is the only person who would be used to seeing his/her image that way. Everyone else sees what the camera sees, so unless the subject is the only one who's ever going to see and enjoy the portrait it would seem kind of silly to print it flopped.

[annc]

Nope, me neither. Just say, "NO!" There's the same convention about car shots - they're not supposed to be driving off the page. But flopping is cheating - bad, bad, bad. You can't get away with it with race cars anyway because they have visible writing on them. ;-)I have a feeling that we get flopped photos of production cars from Europe, Japan and North America to put the driver on the right. <g>

[marlene]

First, the proper term is "flop" the photo--one flips flapjacks.

Right -- now that I think about it, when I worked at newspapers it was called flopping. I had been using the Quark and Photoshop term.

So I am doing the Right Thing? Refusing to flop, though it causes a flap when the editor flips?

mxh

[marlene]

There's the same convention about car shots - they're not supposed to be driving off the page.

Reminds me of when the Yew S. Post Office changed its logo a zillion years ago. Someone had noticed that the pony (in the old pony-express logo) on the employees' sleeves was running in the wrong direction.

Or am I imagining all this?

mxh

[Eggles]

>>says that's the correct way to orient mug shots<<

Ho ho - first time I have heard that one.

I think the points you make a very valid i.e. Faces are not symmetrical, and hair would be parted on the wrong side, birthmarks would be relocated, chipped teeth would be moved, etc.

Have you pointed this out to your client? Has she considered how the people affected would feel?

[ktinkel]

So I am doing the Right Thing? Refusing to flop, though it causes a flap when the editor flips?Absolutely!

Everything that Don said, and perhaps even more emphatically. It is unethical to flop a photo.

Yes, it is nice to have people looking into the publication — or directly out at the reader, better yet — rather than out of it, but you cannot redraw them to suit the layout. Get another picture or leave that person out if that concern trumps all the others.

When I get a chance I’ll rummage through a few books — see if I can get you a good citation. But you are on firm ground.

[Michael Rowley]

Anne:

'photos of production cars from Europe, Japan and North America to put the driver on the right'

Have they stopped driving on the left in Japan then?

[marlene]

A citation would be great, if you can find one. I could use some ammunition.

mxh

[marlene]

Have you pointed this out to your client?

Yes. But sometimes she gets fixated on "rules" she has learned somewhere.

Has she considered how the people affected would feel?

I did point out that most, if not all, people would certainly notice they'd been flip-flopped, and probably would prefer not to be, at the least. I know I wouldn't like it.

mxh

[djb]

Yes. But sometimes she gets fixated on "rules" she has learned somewhere.
I did point out that most, if not all, people would certainly notice they'd been flip-flopped, and probably would prefer not to be, at the least. I know I wouldn't like it.

'Twere it my mug that was flopped, I wouldn't flip. My first thought would be "amatuers".

As for fixating on "rules", how about "A printed photograph should, foremost, attempt to show the reader what they would have seen if they'd been present at the event."

djb

[Robin Springall]

I generally prefer portraits to face inwards, but I agree it can get a bit tedious to follow the rule all the time: you can end with background oddities like computer keyboards with the numeric keypad on the left, or a poster with the text back-to-front!

[Richard Hunt]

I have a feeling that we get flopped photos of production cars from Europe, Japan and North America to put the driver on the right. <g>

I did see a full page shot of a rally car at full speed which had been flopped to put the driver on the right, but unfortunately they forgot to correct the number plate... althoughg that was many years ago.

Richard Hunt

[annc]

I did see a full page shot of a rally car at full speed which had been flopped to put the driver on the right, but unfortunately they forgot to correct the number plate... althoughg that was many years ago.It's amazing the things that gt missed when people make those changes.

[Hugh Wyn Griffith]

<< the proper term is "flop" the photo-- >>

Although my photo editors refer to flip (as well as rotate).

[marlene]

My first thought would be "amatuers".

I told my client that if we flopped a photo, it would look like a mistake.

"A printed photograph should, foremost, attempt to show the reader what they would have seen if they'd been present at the event."

That sounds pretty good, although it's not always an event!

mxh

[Steve Rindsberg]

Silly? Not to the person paying the bill. I'd guess that once flopped, the negative stayed thataway.

[mact]

IF you could tell...

[sdbond]

When I used to do newspaper layout, we flopped photos all the time, especially in the bridal section. It's a basic rule in news journalism layout, or at least it used to be, that you don't have faces leading the reader off the page.

Regards,
Sharon Bond
Chicago

[marlene]

When I used to do newspaper layout, we flopped photos all the time, especially in the bridal section. It's a basic rule in news journalism layout, or at least it used to be, that you don't have faces leading the reader off the page.

Interesting ... I just checked the Washington Post, and in the sections I thumbed through, it looks like none of the photos were flopped, since people were looking in all different directions. Bob Dylan was one of the ones looking off the page, but of course one does not flop Dylan. <g>

mxh

[sdbond]

Indeed, I would hope one would =not= flop Bob Dylan!

[ktinkel]

When I used to do newspaper layout, we flopped photos all the time, especially in the bridal section. It's a basic rule in news journalism layout, or at least it used to be, that you don't have faces leading the reader off the page.Sharon: That is interesting, as when I used to do the same thing — in the late 1950s — we did not flop bridal photos (or other head shots, for that matter).

I wonder if it was partly a matter of technology. It is easy to flop a digital halftone, but I think emulsion issues got in the way of easily doing so in camera (or in the scanograver used in those days to convert photos to halftones).

We also tried not to have faces looking off the page, but then it meant that we might move a wrong-facing photo into an inner column to mitigate the problem (or if possible onto the facing page to solve it).