Upgrade process for small newspaper?

[ElyseC]

I'm looking for thoughts and tips for helping a small publisher make a plan for and survive the transition of upgrading to new machines and current software. I'm trying to break this down into manageable steps and stages, keeping mindful of a budget befitting their size and the fact that they never have the luxury of "down time."

Picture a small publisher (7-8 Macs, mostly blue & white G3 machines, but at least one beige G3 and one 17" G4 Powerbook) producing a couple of small, weekly newspapers, special inserts and advertisers on regular, unyielding deadlines.

Currently, for a whole variety of reasons (not the least of which is budget) machines in daily production (all but the G4 Powerbook) find themselves still on OS9.2, producing with older versions of Photoshop and QuarkXPress 4. They've pushed these machines about as far as they can and naturally spend (too) much time babying the apps, running one thing at a time, fussing with font troubles and jumping extra hoops to keep on schedule.

They know they must face replacing old machines and go to OSX all around. They also know they're facing a huge cost to upgrade all their apps. Most all the other publishers in the region have switched to InDesign and they're debating such a switch, too, but are rightfully concerned about keeping up with the unyielding deadlines as well as fitting the budget.

They have at least six licenses for QX and something less than that for Photoshop (they don't need to run it on all machines), plus other assorted apps. I'm suggesting that, if they're going to switch to ID, this would be the time for it, because, with all their legacy files being QX4, ID will open them, which is not so for QX5 and 6 files. I'm thinking that, going from QX4 to current will cost them nearly as much out of pocket as switching to ID, but the QX-to-ID learning curve also has a time (and therefore money) cost and there are those pesky deadlines to be met.

As it is now, they PDF everything that goes to press, so they could, conceivably, stick with QX and not care what others like them are doing, because they don't need to interact with them anyway.

Hoping against hope, I searched through Adobe's site and could find no mention of how much it would cost to upgrade from any version of Photoshop older than v7 and CS1, and of course nothing like a cross-grade offer to jump ship from QX.

If you've been there and done that with a small company like this, replacing virtually all their machines and bringing all software to current versions (switching OSs and vital software):
-- what 1-2-3-step options do they have?
-- what worked and didn't work that you tried?

[terrie]

elysc: I'm thinking that, going from QX4 to current will cost them nearly as much out of pocket as switching to ID, but the QX-to-ID learning curve also has a time (and therefore money) cost and there are those pesky deadlines to be met.I can't give you any real advice but from reading here and there, I wonder if they might contact Adobe and talk with them about converting and that Adobe might just make them a very nice offer on a package of ID and/or the CS2 suite...it certainly wouldn't hurt to ask...

Adobe might also have suggestions for the transition...perhaps it might be phased in?

Maybe John might know of someone to contact?

Terrie

[djb]

It there any chance they can find InDesign 2? When we made the move, I went to InD 2 on OS 9 first, and we ran both Xpress 4 and InD in parallel for a while. Once we had switched to InD altogether, we made the move to OSX.

But what is the compelling reason for them to abandon Quark? In our case, we had one (no OS X version of Xpress in sight, and our computer replacement cycle is such that we knew we would have to move to OS X.), but those circumstances don't exist now.

If the goal is to reduce the pain, stay with Quark and start a gradual upgrade of hardware. Make sure they have a chance to play with OSX before they go live in production, and emphasize over and over again that IF THEY TRY TO MAKE OS X BEHAVE LIKE OS 9 THEY WILL BE VERY, VERY UNHAPPY! (Yes, I'm yelling... This is EXTREMELY important for them to understand.)

If you want to chat about what we went through here in Toontown, feel free to give me a phone call. I'm in the office this week, but am taking next week off to do a kitchen reno.

[ElyseC]

It there any chance they can find InDesign 2? When we made the move, I went to InD 2 on OS 9 first, and we ran both Xpress 4 and InD in parallel for a while. Once we had switched to InD altogether, we made the move to OSX.I don't know of a way to get ID2, alas.

But what is the compelling reason for them to abandon Quark? In our case, we had one (no OS X version of Xpress in sight, and our computer replacement cycle is such that we knew we would have to move to OS X.), but those circumstances don't exist now.

If the goal is to reduce the pain, stay with Quark and start a gradual upgrade of hardware. Make sure they have a chance to play with OSX before they go live in production,...They're watching other papers, small and large, in the region go to ID and tell them how wonderful it is. I'm using IDCS myself and really like its features. I know there are some things in ID that they'd like and would be easier for them. OTOH, they're already familiar with QX and it would be no trivial thing to switch from it. I think, were they to switch, they'd still want to buy at least one QX upgrade, then start learning ID by creating the special supplements and other stand-alone publications with it. Then, when everyone's had a chance to work with ID a while on those things, switch the rest of the paper. Too bad they don't take one week off during the year. Hm...I wonder if the readership would be forgiving if they announced that they were going to be down and not publish one week to upgrade.

If you want to chat about what we went through here in Toontown, feel free to give me a phone call. I'm in the office this week, but am taking next week off to do a kitchen reno.Thanks very much. Offer noted and will probably take you up on it, but not just yet. Best of luck with the kitchen redo.

[djb]

I don't know of a way to get ID2, alas.

They're watching other papers, small and large, in the region go to ID and tell them how wonderful it is. I'm using IDCS myself and really like its features. I know there are some things in ID that they'd like and would be easier for them. OTOH, they're already familiar with QX and it would be no trivial thing to switch from it. I think, were they to switch, they'd still want to buy at least one QX upgrade, then start learning ID by creating the special supplements and other stand-alone publications with it. Then, when everyone's had a chance to work with ID a while on those things, switch the rest of the paper. Too bad they don't take one week off during the year. Hm...I wonder if the readership would be forgiving if they announced that they were going to be down and not publish one week to upgrade.

Thanks very much. Offer noted and will probably take you up on it, but not just yet. Best of luck with the kitchen redo.

I'd want them to come up with a compelling business case for switching to InD. And I suspect that they won't be able to. As much as I'm glad we moved from Xpress to InD, we had a business case at the time. If I had to make the same arguments today they would fall flat and we'd likely stay with Xpress.

Kitchen... Yeah, kitchen... Woo. Hoo.

Ah, well. An excuse to buy that brad nailer, at least, and I already got a belt sander out of the deal. ;-)

Don't hesitate to call if you want to bounce ideas back and forth.

[djb]

One more thing they need to take into account, and fast. Classic does not function on Intel Macs, if they want to run Xpress 5 or earlier.

djb

[ElyseC]

Thanks much, will call if needed. Good to hear the thoughts of one who has BTDT in the same industry. They'd be very happy to just upgrade machines and stick with XPress, but I know they'll have to upgrade Photoshop, Illustrator and Acrobat, as well. The latest version of Photoshop they have is 7 and I don't know about Acrobat, but I think it's 4. Illustrator I think is also v7.

[ElyseC]

One more thing they need to take into account, and fast. Classic does not function on Intel Macs, if they want to run Xpress 5 or earlier.My bet is that they'll not buy Intel Macs unless they have to by the time they buy the new machines. They have just one machine running QX5 and the others are on 4, separate licenses all. Everything created with v5 has been back-saved to 4, because the main/final-step production machine is using 4, so they should be fine. I'll also recommend they keep at least one older machine around to run v5 during the transition and until they determine they don't need v5 any longer.

[PeterArnel]

OK
what u have to do <<<<hahahah>>>
Find a good Mac dealer who also understand hubs amd networking and proofing etc OR talk to the pre press supplier and come up with a solution that can be funded over say 3 years - it always sounds better and more affordable to say this will cost u so much per month .
Peter - always good at giving advice - but rarly takes it :-)

[ElyseC]

There are no local Mac dealers; the closest Apple Store is 2-3 hours away, along with the usual tech support shop they use.

That may be a very good approach, figuring out their per-month budget for the upgrade. I like that and think it'll make a lot of sense to them.

[PeterArnel]

We upgraded all our Macs last year ( about 15) and without a company who understands print and publishing it would have been very hard. We upgraded our network to "gig" it meant new hubs etc, we upgraded all our software , we had huge font problems in the way OS 10 deals with fonts and they ran our fonts through font doctor for us. They now look after the whole network and machines and it works well. THe only thing they dont support is the server ( I presume that the company is running a server
anyway best of luck
Peter

[ElyseC]

Yes, they do have a server. They also have myriad font issues now in OS 9.2, so going to OSX will not be pretty unless someone finally comes up with the perfect font manager and/or Apple reworks the OS to allow all fonts to live together where the user chooses.

[dthomsen8]

All newspapers, from small to very large, are faced with the issue of how to adapt to the Internet age. Paper newspapers are declining in circulation and revenues, but newspaper management hasn't quite figured out how to adapt.

Does this newspaper have an Internet edition? Do they have revenue from it?

Pardon me if I raise a different issue, but it might well be related to what they do with their hardware and software upgrades, if they need online publication.

Perhaps this should be a separate thread.

[ElyseC]

Other than the zwire service many small newspapers contract with to publish some of their content, no. They're a very small, weekly paper located in a town of about 2500, in the middle of Amish/Mennonite country. Residents are very proud of having their own printed paper and a decent chunk of the subscriber base would never access it on line. Although...my husband went to a little eBay presentation put on by the local USPS folks and said one person asking very good questions that showed he was already quite familiar with eBay and the online world was a young man who, at the end, walked out, climbed into an Amish buggy and clip-clopped away. So who knows?

[djb]

Thanks much, will call if needed. Good to hear the thoughts of one who has BTDT in the same industry. They'd be very happy to just upgrade machines and stick with XPress, but I know they'll have to upgrade Photoshop, Illustrator and Acrobat, as well. The latest version of Photoshop they have is 7 and I don't know about Acrobat, but I think it's 4. Illustrator I think is also v7.

Is Adobe still doing the upgrade from PShop to the Suite? That would get them going at a fair price.

If they're going to have to upgrade Illy, PS and Acro anyway, it makes sense to go to CS. If that's the direction, then they need to evaluate whether the cost of switching to InD is less than the additional cost of upgrading Xpress.

How many seats are we talking about? With a small circulation (town of 2500) I'm guessing only a few. That certainly changes the equation, and the personalities of the poeple being upgraded may come into play more than in a larger organization.

I'm really interested in knowing how this goes... Wish I was close enough to drop in for a visit and do some co-consulting.

djb

[ElyseC]

Is Adobe still doing the upgrade from PShop to the Suite? That would get them going at a fair price.

If they're going to have to upgrade Illy, PS and Acro anyway, it makes sense to go to CS. If that's the direction, then they need to evaluate whether the cost of switching to InD is less than the additional cost of upgrading Xpress.I think they are, but don't know for sure.

How many seats are we talking about? With a small circulation (town of 2500) I'm guessing only a few. That certainly changes the equation, and the personalities of the poeple being upgraded may come into play more than in a larger organization.I think no more than five or six seats of QX, fewer of the Adobe apps, because they have one workstation pretty much dedicated to Photoshop work and maybe three machines tops for AI. Acrobat 4 is on at least two machines and the one modern machine, a G4 17" PB, is running QX 6.5 and whatever was current for AI, Photoshop and Acrobat as of six months or so ago. That machine is not for general production use, however.

Oh, and absolutely will personalities come into play in this.

I'm really interested in knowing how this goes... Wish I was close enough to drop in for a visit and do some co-consulting.You might enjoy comparing notes with them, yes. It's a very different situation from the Western Producer, a much smaller operation where everyone wears many hats, whatever hat is needed at that instant.

[djb]

Takes me back to my roots... In the mid 80s I worked for a small paper in northern BC as production manager. Six full time staff and a couple of part-timers, if memory serves. Town of 2500, mostly Mennonite and Mormon, maybe 4,000 in the immediate area.

Do I miss it? Nope.

[ElyseC]

Takes me back to my roots... In the mid 80s I worked for a small paper in northern BC as production manager. Six full time staff and a couple of part-timers, if memory serves. Town of 2500, mostly Mennonite and Mormon, maybe 4,000 in the immediate area.Sounds very similar, yes indeed, but replace the Mormons with Amish and add tourism based around quilting, antiques and the Amish.

[groucho]

eec, assuming it isn't a moot point by now...

I can only see one reliable way to make the upgrade without courting disaster. First, they need to hire one full-time temp and one full-time trainer. Start with the temp, give them a week to come up to speed so they can fill any position on the production line. Now start adding new workstations to the network, assuming the existing file server can still be used as the hub for everything. This is the time for (you?) to come in, set up new machines, load software or image it out to them, take a week to get the new machines installed -- without interrupting production.

The new machines and old ones should now sit side-by-side cramping the workstations if needed, sharing single monitors in the worst case, with everything able to run. You start by having the trainer work full time with one person (as the temp takes over their production work and they move to a training station, ideally) and as they 'get it' move to the next person, figuring each of your people may need 1/2 day or day to learn the new machine and OS, plus time to learn the new app, maybe one more day to get started.

You'll probably make different decisions about just how much time who needs, or the best phase-in for that shop, etc. But that's really the only way to make the smooth transition, phasing the people in with a "rolling" changeover rather than a sudden one.

If the shop only runs 5 days per week, consider running a full-day of paid OT on the weekend, with the trainer sitting with 2-4 people (no more) in any one session, to pre-train them on the new application and computer. That could mean running four sessions (choice of sat/sun on each of two weekends) with the trainer working with 2 people on each of them. If the shop runs 24x7 or the workers can't spend extra time (even 6-10PM half days?) for the changeover...it may just all have to happen in parallel with production work, using that "training" station.

But the key is to phase in, to work in parallel, and to have the extra hands there (temp and trainer, who I assume can also temp if needed in a pinch) so that they CAN literaly "make time" while production is in progress.

The physical purchase price of new hardware and software is the least of it, but trying to avoid the extra bodies and time for the rest, spells disaster. And if the client wants a SMOOTH changeover, it pays to make sure the workers do get OT for any OT they put in, and the little extras like having the shop pick up meal breaks, etc. during that time. If the shop can't afford OT, at least have them offer generous comp time. Happy workers make the transition smoother.<G>

If you can schedule this over a 3-day weekend or other time that any workloads might normally be lighter...all the better.

[ElyseC]

eec, assuming it isn't a moot point by now...It's not yet moot.

Yes, all that I've been looking at and trying to work on a way through it that suits this particular operation. Just one of the possible glitches came up when I first suggested they'd need to keep both machines on the desks during the transition. The associate publisher informed me that because this building is well over 100 years old, they're already at the max of wall outlet usage and cannot plug in one more thing on any wall. Yikes! I haven't crawled around to see this for myself, but will have to before we can proceed.

Today we found out the ballpark figure <shudder!> of upgrading all the software for four, maybe five stations and I'm working on recommendations for the new hardware. At the moment we're thinking the new Intel iMacs, 20"ers for the workstations plus a 17"er for the server, but we'll see after I ponder and we talk more.

[groucho]

<they're already at the max of wall outlet usage and cannot plug in one more thing on any wall. > Sounds like they'll have to use PowerBooks.<G>

I'd eyeball the sockets, the breaker/fuse panel, see if there isn't SOMEthing (low watt bulbs, turning off lights, unplugging a coffeepot & laser...SOMETHING) that can't be done to address that. Maybe they have air conditioners that aren't in use this season? Or, if all else fails, an electrician can run a temporary drop line from the building's service panel. Maybe they can rent a generator and run the lines in from the street for a week?<G>

The alternative is to set up, train, prep, etc. totally during off hours en masse. And besides scheduling problems...somehow that rarely gives the painless transition that someone thinks it can.

[ElyseC]

When we get to that stage we'll explore those possibilities. Hadn't thought about the temporary drop line, but I'll remember to bring that up. Thanks.

[groucho]

Something to consider, do they have backup power? Or, would they consider it? A UPS large enough to run their computers (plural) from one rack for, say 2 hours, would be expensive but not unheard of. That *might* be attractive if they are deadline oriented and have any concerns about local power. That same rack could easily run 1-2 computers for most of one day. Which means, if they add in the new computers, the "backup" power could be used to run just the one or two needed on any given day for training.

Even without that...If you install the new computers side by side with the old, and JUST turn on two (one new server, one new workstation) for training? That shouldn't be much of a power load. The trick is, turn on the new one for training...turn off the old one once that person moves to the new one. So the whole load is never more than 2 computers "more" than what they have now. But the old machines are still there, so that any one can be turned on--IF it is needed--for a short time again.

Got it?

[ElyseC]

Right now I have no idea if they have UPSs or anything of the kind. If they don't I'll certainly be strongly advising they get them for each machine. Gotta make sure they have ones that do the sine wave thing, because modern Macs have required it for a while -- IF you care about the machine actually staying running long enough for an orderly shutdown in a power failure. Without the sine wave for a machine that wants it, a UPS that boasts xx minutes battery backup is lying -- power goes off and the machine immediately goes off. Been there, done that starting several years ago with my husband's 2000-model iMac. Never could understand why that APC BackUPS never gave him any battery time until I read somewhere a couple of years ago that we should've bought APC's SmartUPS like I had for my other two machines. The difference between the "Smart" and "Back" is the former provides the sine wave.

Got a nice, still perfect BackUPS or two here that I can't use. Anyone wanna buy? <g>

[groucho]

<<If they don't I'll certainly be strongly advising they get them for each machine. >>
IF all they want to do is have time for an orderly shut down, OR keep running when power blinks (as it does quite often in lightning strike areas), that's OK. But if they want the ability to keep working, it sometimes pays to look at a UPS "rack" instead of single supplies.

<<Gotta make sure they have ones that do the sine wave thing, because modern Macs have required it for a while>> Didn't know that, on the PC side most machines use power supplies that are fairly immune to wave shape.

<<Never could understand why that APC BackUPS never gave him any battery time>>
It could be more complex than that. The gel cells used to power most UPSes on the market only have a 5-year working life. That's based on losing 20-25% of their rated capacity every year simply through aging. But here's the zinger: Lead acid batteries, including gel cells, also lose about 20% of their power as you go from a nice 74F room to a nice hot 90F room. In the summer, especially if the AC has just shut down, you MUST expect them to have 20-25% less power than they were rated for at room temperature. And that much less again for every year old they are.

So assuming that your new power supply was rated for 750 Watts at 10 minutes? On a hot day when it is two years old...You can now expect only about a 3 minute run time. regardless of brand or quality. What you really have to do is spec the power supply for fully TWICE the run time you need, and then still replace the batteries on schedule, every third or fourth year, if you want to rely on it. Personally I have grown to hate APC because they are full of snake oil. They used to sell replacement batteries to dealers...now they claim they have special battery packs that can only be replaced by their repair center AND that the UPS needs to be "recalibrated" for a replacement battery, again only by their repair center, for a steep fee. That's utter nonsense and an insult to any customer who knows anything about power supplies in general.
You might try "Best" aka "Patriot" to see if they make what you want, they're honest folks who will talk turkey and tell you how to replace the batteries at any alarm or lighting supply store.

<<The difference between the "Smart" and "Back" is the former provides the sine wave.>> I think there were also other differences, among them run-time and how they changed over. Or the better series was a constant power supply (i.e. always making DC to charge the batteries, and always making AC from the batteries to run your gear) which is a more expensive way to go, but in theory cleaner power with zero changeover time. Most computers these days don't care about changeover time, so that's less of an issue.

<<Got a nice, still perfect BackUPS or two here that I can't use. Anyone wanna buy? <g>>> Same problem, I work mainly on the laptop but I'm afraid SHIPPING costs for those big lead batteries kill the deal.<G>

[ElyseC]

But if they want the ability to keep working, it sometimes pays to look at a UPS "rack" instead of single supplies.Ah, but we're talking about a teeny tiny little business, a weekly newspaper that is gagging on what it'll cost them to move from old Mac OS 9.2 machines and elderly software including QX4 to five brand new machines plus $3900+ for Adobe software upgrades and new purchases alone (since there's no competitive upgrade for their five licenses of QX <sigh>). No, mere ability to run long enough for an orderly shutdown is friendlier to their up-front budget.
So assuming that your new power supply was rated for 750 Watts at 10 minutes? On a hot day when it is two years old...You can now expect only about a 3 minute run time. regardless of brand or quality.Not the issue for the hubby's machine. In power outages (we had rolling blackouts where we used to live, Los Angeles County) my machines' UPSs started screaming when the power went out, but gave me plenty of time to dash in, quit out of everything, then shut down (process taking several minutes depending on what I'd been running at the time), but hubby's machine went immediately black. Power went out, machine went instantly black. Not fun. Once I finally found out the problem and put his machine on another SmartUPS I already had, no more problem.
Same problem, I work mainly on the laptop but I'm afraid SHIPPING costs for those big lead batteries kill the deal.<G>Yeah, I might just see if a local school district would like them...oh wait...no, the school districts here are all Mac and mostly new ones at that. Oh well, nevermind -- I'll continue to use them as doorstops, I guess.

[groucho]

<<my machines' UPSs started screaming when the power went out, but gave me plenty of time to dash in, quit out of everything, then shut down >> No software to do an orderly shutdown? I'm surprised, just about everything on the Wintel side includes a software option for a complete and orderly shutdown when the power goes out and the UPS comes up.

I have sympathy for the small budget and tight times, but when all is said and done, if they didn't budget ahead for the replacement of their computers...that's that.

I don't suppose they can sell their old QXP4 licenses and seats for salvage value, maybe on eBay?

[ElyseC]

No software to do an orderly shutdown? I'm surprised, just about everything on the Wintel side includes a software option for a complete and orderly shutdown when the power goes out and the UPS comes up.I've read there is, but having once read of some kind of problem way back when, I deemed it untrustworthy and haven't given it another glance. Probably OK now, but it's been a low priority item for me.

I have sympathy for the small budget and tight times, but when all is said and done, if they didn't budget ahead for the replacement of their computers...that's that.I've been in similar straights and it wasn't due to lack of planning and trying on my part. I'm not about to judge them. I know for a fact that many things can come up to thwart the best laid plans and best of intentions. Life happens, then you have to deal with it to the best of your ability.

I don't suppose they can sell their old QXP4 licenses and seats for salvage value, maybe on eBay?Don't know. I doubt it would get them much and Quark Inc. has been difficult (to put it mildly) about transfers of registration. Heck, when I wanted to change the registration of my copy of QX from a business name I used only temporarily to my own name it felt like I was having to prove my American citizenship, swear by my firstborn, and give them a pint of blood to seal it all. It's worth investigating, but I have my doubts on them getting serious cash to recoup compared to what they'll be laying out.