One billionth Internet user

[annc]

I found this article by Jakob Nielsen (http://www.useit.com/alertbox/internet_growth.html) very interesting, especially the respective Inernet user numbers: 23% in North America, 24% in Europe, and 36% in Asia. He ignores those of us in the Southern Hemisphere. But I'd always had this feeling that over 50% of users were in North America, so we had to consider US (in particular) characteristics in design. The article goes on to estimate that the 23% will be down to 15% by the time the second billion users arrive.

[iamback]

I found this article by Jakob Nielsen (http://www.useit.com/alertbox/internet_growth.html) very interesting, especially the respective Inernet user numbers: 23% in North America, 24% in Europe, and 36% in Asia. He ignores those of us in the Southern Hemisphere. But I'd always had this feeling that over 50% of users were in North America, so we had to consider US (in particular) characteristics in design. The article goes on to estimate that the 23% will be down to 15% by the time the second billion users arrive. Actually, Nielsen misquotes his source (http://www.morganstanley.com/institutional/techresearch/gsb112005.html): it seems he equates "Asia Pacific" and "Asia". The numbers he (mis)quotes are on page 15 of the Morgan Stanley report (PDF) (http://www.morganstanley.com/institutional/techresearch/pdfs/GSB112005.pdf). South America is at 5% and the rest of the world (ROW) at 12%. There's more interesting stuff hidden in that report...

[annc]

Actually, Nielsen misquotes his source (http://www.morganstanley.com/institutional/techresearch/gsb112005.html): it seems he equates "Asia Pacific" and "Asia". The numbers he (mis)quotes are on page 15 of the Morgan Stanley report (PDF) (http://www.morganstanley.com/institutional/techresearch/pdfs/GSB112005.pdf). South America is at 5% and the rest of the world (ROW) at 12%. There's more interesting stuff hidden in that report...That'll learn me not to follow all the links!

[Michael Rowley]

Ann:

One of his interesting remarks is 'There are hundreds of millions of old people online, and there are even more users without fancy graduate degrees'.

If there are only a milliard people on line, then hundreds of thousands of 'old people' (perhaps over 50?) represents a considerable proportion; that is not surprising, as they are people with the time and the money.

Nielsen isn't very nice about language: people that have degrees are termed 'graduates'; those without degrees, fancy or otherwise, are not.

I'm curious about how one determines internet users. You can't just add up the number of customers each ISP has, even if every ISP is truthful, for how can an ISP know if his customers haven't another ISP, or even several?

[annc]

Nielsen isn't very nice about language: people that have degrees are termed 'graduates'; those without degrees, fancy or otherwise, are not.I think Nielsen is referring to the American system, where professional degrees such as law, medicine etc. are undertaken afer completing a college degree. Not quite the same as what we call postgraduate or higher degrees.

[iamback]

I'm curious about how one determines internet users. You can't just add up the number of customers each ISP has, even if every ISP is truthful, for how can an ISP know if his customers haven't another ISP, or even several? Looking at the report, that thought crossed my mind, too. If you're looking at ISPs, the numbers for Asia at least would be seriously underestimated in at least a number of countries (not to forget China) since most people access the Internet from Internet cafes. But how do you count them? (Number of stations in use...?)

[Michael Rowley]

Ann:

'professional degrees such as law, medicine etc. are undertaken afer completing a college degree'

I don't think Nielsen was referring only degrees in divinity, medicine, dentistry, or law as 'fancy', and all the more common university degrees as 'plain' (such as BA & BSc); do you? I think it more likely that he was just careless. And I should still like to know what his 'billion' is based on.

[iamback]

And I should still like to know what his 'billion' is based on. So would I - that number is not in the Morgan Stanley report he quotes as source for his misquoted percentages, nor is it in the 2002 NUA report he refers to. At least Morgan Stanley quote sources on every slide with numbers and graphs...

[George]

I think Nielsen is referring to the American system, where professional degrees such as law, medicine etc. are undertaken afer completing a college degree. Not quite the same as what we call postgraduate or higher degrees.

I regret to admit, that I don't know what Australians call a post-graduate or higher degree is. Would you mind informing me??

I know my friends from South America call our degrees four year, six year, and eight year, to understand a conformity to their system. While at one of the graduate schools I attended, I had a classmate from New Zealand. He seemed too American to me. So do all the Swedes in the neighborhood. I wonder how do they get that accent and all the mannerisms so perfect?? And then I wonder -- why can't they also immitate the good stuff about Americans??

Regards,

George

[Michael Rowley]

George:

'I don't know what Australians call a post-graduate or higher degree is'

The same as anywhere where they've kept to the bachelor–master–doctor system: bachelor is the first degree, master and doctor are higher degrees. Any bachelor is a graduate by definition; if he or she continues his or her formal studies, he or she is a 'post-graduate' student. He (this he or she is too tiring, and I refuse to countenance 'they') may be studying something different of course, and then his new degree is a second degree, not a 'higher' degree.

'the good stuff about Americans'

Can you name an American virtue that, say, a Swede or a New Zealander doesn't share?

[annc]

I regret to admit, that I don't know what Australians call a post-graduate or higher degree is. Would you mind informing me??We call Masters degrees and PhDs post-graduate or higher degrees. They're usually offered at the same universities as undergraduate degrees here, because all the universities perform research. Although the 'sandstone' universities all think their degrees are better, of course! http://desktoppublishingforum.com/bb/images/smilies/wink.gif

[annc]

So would I - that number is not in the Morgan Stanley report he quotes as source for his misquoted percentages, nor is it in the 2002 NUA report he refers to. At least Morgan Stanley quote sources on every slide with numbers and graphs...Actually the Morgan Stanley report does mention 1B and 2B on their slide with the percentages. As they define 1B later as 1 billion, I assume that is what they mean on those slides. And as it's an American report, I assume 1 billion to be one thousand million.

[George]

'the good stuff about Americans'
Can you name an American virtue that, say, a Swede or a New Zealander doesn't share?

Well, if a person who is foreign is living in America and using an American style of character prefectly, or imitating the American way, then how is it the focus is not on what has traditionally been the good stuff. For example, if I ask them what it means to be an American, they tell me -- to have the opportunity to make money. I tell them, no -- it means a person has agreed to our Constitution, which is an agreement to uphold the rights of freedom, which includes free entreprise, which leads to prosperity. Their jaws drop in amazement, but then, they agree with me, but they have a dilemna over how they look at money. Just my personal experiences, that I refer to.

However, increasingly, Americans are beginning to think being American simply means having a materialistic lifestyle, and that is not an American virtue that many of the people coming here are imitating. However, the New Zealander I knew was not particularly materialistic--but, he had other American ways. Still, he was a nice guy, and I enjoyed knowing him, as I do all the people who come to this country to live. I just exchange views with them in ways they are not expecting.

Regards,

George

[Michael Rowley]

George:

'it means a person has agreed to our Constitution, which is an agreement to uphold the rights of freedom'

I think that you'll find that most western Europeans (which includes most people from New Zealand or Australia) take freedom and free enterprise for granted—they are by no means peculiar to the USA.

[Michael Rowley]

Ann:

' Although the "sandstone" universities all think their degrees are better'

That's new to me: are they the reverse of British 'red-brick' universities?

[annc]

Ann:

' Although the "sandstone" universities all think their degrees are better'

That's new to me: are they the reverse of British 'red-brick' universities?I think so. The sandstone universities are all 100 years old or older (old for such a young country) and were the only ones around until the sixties, when there was an explosion of new universities. Then the colleges of advanced education were turned into universities and amalgamated with each other and some of the sixties universities. These are looked down upon by the sandstone universities; in fact, the vice-chancellor of Melbourne University recently suggested that the universities be restructured into research universities (the sandstone unis) and teaching universities (the others). That didn't go down too well with the state governments or the other universities.

[Michael Rowley]

Ann:

'The sandstone universities are all 100 years old or older'

Perhaps not quite like the universities of Britain. Our red-brick universities proper (Manchester, Sheffield, and so on) were looked down on by Oxford, Cambridge, and the old universities of Scotland, which go back centuries, but they in turn look down on a host of other 'universities' formed quite recently from the former technical colleges.

[George]

George:

'it means a person has agreed to our Constitution, which is an agreement to uphold the rights of freedom'

I think that you'll find that most western Europeans (which includes most people from New Zealand or Australia) take freedom and free enterprise for granted—they are by no means peculiar to the USA.

I was talking about how foreigners in America immitate us. You placed your own special meaning to my words. I don't think I'll respond further, not needing any further additional meanings tacked on to what I was trying to say.

Regards,

George