Becoming unemployed

[marlene]

It looks like my freelance, self-employed days are numbered. My biggest client decided to do their publications in-house (not a real surprise -- they've been talking about it for months), and has already hired a full-time graphic designer. So my workload is rapidly dwindling.

I don't have enough other work (from other clients) to stay afloat (and yes, I'm checking out all possible new clients, but found nothing else so far), so it looks like it's time to update my resume, dye my hair, and go out job hunting.

Any suggestions? I'm especially curious to know what the current salaries are for DTP people, if anyone knows. I've been self-employed since 1987, so I have no idea what kind of money they're paying these days. I'm not really looking for a "design" position so much as a production/DTP/layout sort of thing.

There have been very few positions advertised locally, so I am starting to feel a bit stressed. (More gray hairs! <g>)

mxh

[terrie]

Oh Marlene...I'm so sorry!

How tacky that your client didn't even make you an offer for the in-house position!

I don't have a clue about positions...

Did you by any chance see this article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A11254-2005Feb9?language=printer

in the Post yesterday???

"A small Fairfax County company has designed the official logo for the 47th Grammy Awards ceremony, which will be shown on CBS Sunday night.

Woodpile Studios, a Vienna-based graphics design company founded in 1994 by Peter Buttecali, was chosen to create the logo, which Grammy officials said could be seen by more than 25 million people during Sunday's live, prime-time broadcast."


Maybe you could cold call them and see if they might have freelance work for you???


Terrie

[marlene]

There's no point in calling Woodpile. If they do use freelancers, they would be people with infinitely more advanced capabilities than mine. And I am sure Woodpile is Mac-based. They aren't going to use freelancers with PCs. Especially since they have their pick of freelancers who have Macs.

There are lots of great graphic designers around here who can't find work. I know, because some of them have cold-called ME asking if I need any help. And every one of the people who has called me has been a much better designer than I will ever be.

What I need to find is a job where my production (not design) skills would be an asset. I'm good at the details. And the printing companies love me, because my files are always printable.

This sole proprietor crap is wearing thin, anyway. My life is not my own. It's time for me to go out and find a regular job, with a regular paycheck, and vacation time.

mxh

[terrie]

>>What I need to find is a job where my production (not design) skills would be an asset. I'm good at the details. And the printing companies love me, because my files are always printable.

Soooo...what about contacting printing companies in the area and presenting yourself as the liason person between the customer and the printer?

Terrie

[ktinkel]

Any suggestions? I'm especially curious to know what the current salaries are for DTP people, if anyone knows. I've been self-employed since 1987, so I have no idea what kind of money they're paying these days. I'm not really looking for a "design" position so much as a production/DTP/layout sort of thing.

There have been very few positions advertised locally, so I am starting to feel a bit stressed. (More gray hairs! <g>)Surely you will look for typesetting production jobs, not “DTP” work? You have a lot of skill and knowledge.

I don’t know how pay scales go, but around here I often see ads for daily newspapers, looking for people with XPress and Photoshop skills.

Another possibility would be commercial printers. They have production people on staff, and you might fit right in.

On the other hand, if you worked for a local newspaper you could really be up on all the gossip. <g>

[marlene]

what about contacting printing companies in the area and presenting yourself as the liason person between the customer and the printer?

ROFL! Who, me? I try to avoid contact with the public at all costs. That's one reason I liked working freelance at home. I could never be a go-between for printers and their customers. It would be too hands-on for me.

But some printing companies do have in-house design departments, so those are a possibility. I did interview at a local printing company about 4 or 5 years ago (after I went through a similar ordeal -- I had lost my biggest client, and my income dropped by about 80%). I turned the job down, though, because the pay wasn't great, and the benefits were terrible. No sick leave, and only one week paid vacation per year.

But right now I get NO paid vacation, so any paid vacation would be a step up. <g>

mxh

[marlene]

I'm looking for ANYTHING for which I have the skills/experience. But I'm appalled at how thin the help wanted sections are in the Washington Post. The last time I was looking for a regular job (about 5 years ago), there were a good number of ads in the DTP/design/production field. But not now.

I'm not even seeing a lot of secretarial positions advertised. I don't know if the lack of jobs is just a local thing, or nationwide.

I have occasionally seen ads for jobs at the Post, but either I didn't have the skills, or they wanted someone to work nights, or something else was wrong. And I'm not working for the Moonies!

I will be looking into the printing company angle -- I know of at least one nearby that does design/layout in-house. And I'm networking -- contacting all my colleagues in the biz. Some of them are about as bad off as I am. One freelancing friend also lost her biggest client and is looking for work.

This is not good ...

mxh

[annc]

It looks like my freelance, self-employed days are numbered. My biggest client decided to do their publications in-house (not a real surprise -- they've been talking about it for months), and has already hired a full-time graphic designer. So my workload is rapidly dwindling.

I don't have enough other work (from other clients) to stay afloat (and yes, I'm checking out all possible new clients, but found nothing else so far), so it looks like it's time to update my resume, dye my hair, and go out job hunting.

Any suggestions? I'm especially curious to know what the current salaries are for DTP people, if anyone knows. I've been self-employed since 1987, so I have no idea what kind of money they're paying these days. I'm not really looking for a "design" position so much as a production/DTP/layout sort of thing.

There have been very few positions advertised locally, so I am starting to feel a bit stressed. (More gray hairs! <g>)

mxhOh, dear! I'm really sorry to hear about that. Like Terrie, I think your client is very bad-mannered not to at least offer you the job they've created in-house.

Good luck with thejob search.

[terrie]

>>Marlene: ROFL! Who, me? I try to avoid contact with the public at all costs.

LOL!!!

>>But some printing companies do have in-house design departments, so those are a possibility.

I think it would be worth looking into and the printing market has expanded greatly since you last interviewed so the pay and bennies might be a bit better...

Terrie

[terrie]

>>Marlene: But I'm appalled at how thin the help wanted sections are in the Washington Post.

If you are looking at the Post in print, I think you may be looking in the wrong place...I believe that you need to look online--either at the Post site or at places like monster.com and careerbuilder.com

Terrie

[JVegVT]

>> Some of them are about as bad off as I am. One freelancing friend also lost her biggest client and is looking for work. >>

At least you can take comfort in knowing you're not alone.

I have no suggestions, but I do hope you find something satisfactory.
--Judy M.

[marlene]

the pay and bennies might be a bit better...

I'm finding that the pay (dunno about the bennies) actually seem worse. There were very few relevant jobs in the Post today, but the ones that posted salaries were offering pretty low ones.

I've pretty much made a decision to stop freelancing, however. It's just too uncertain -- I can't keep going through this -- and with Mr. E retired, I can no longer count on his income as a safety net.

I am going to pursue temp work, both in desktop publishing and plain old secretarial work, for now. That might at least provide me with some income while I do a job search.

mxh

[marlene]

I'm looking both at the printed Post and online. I did find listings for a temp agency in the online Post, and will be contacting them.

Haven't tried monster.com or careerbuilder.com -- I'll check them out.

mxh

[marlene]

I'll even take something unsatisfactory!

mxh

[terrie]

>>marlene: I am going to pursue temp work, both in desktop publishing and plain old secretarial work, for now. That might at least provide me with some income while I do a job search.

I read an article not too long ago (can't remember exactly where but probably the Post) that there are quite a few specialized temp agencies...you may be able to find one that specializes in graphics...

Terrie

[terrie]

>>marlene: Haven't tried monster.com or careerbuilder.com -- I'll check them out.

I'm curious about what you might find there...

Terrie

[PeterArnel]

Marlene
I have just wrote reams and been booted off - As a printer DTP techies who can trouble shoot files are like gold in the UK - and if you were to want to work shift - 6 - 2 - 2 -10 even better - salary about $40,000 inc sick pay and 5 weeks holiday
Peter ( when can u start)
Write to all the printers if u can and tell them your skills - if u have web knowledge then SHOUT at them if u dont then lie and go to college quick - setting a web site up is great - maintaining is something else

[PeterArnel]

The Other area which we all have a need for is someone coming in and doing our newsletters - its great to do one but we run out of steam on the others - I have always thought that someone offering a service of coming into a company say 4 or 6 times ayears and producing a newsletter to customers would be quite good - if u were cute ( which I am sure u are) you could get the printing sponsered by their sippliers - so it wouldnt cost them anything

[marlene]

I think I've decided I don't want to be self-employed/freelance any more -- too many ups and downs. I want to either get a regular full-time job, or see if I can get enough temp work (through temp agencies). I worked my way through college doing temp work (secretarial), and never had trouble finding work. Of course, that was a long time ago (the '70s), so I don't know how much work I could get from a temp agency.

Won't know until I try ...

mxh

[marlene]

Yes, there's one agency that does handle temporary graphics/DTP jobs. That will probably be my first target.

There may be others ...

mxh

[marlene]

Peter,

LOL! I would move to the UK in a heartbeat, except I don't think my three dogs would be allowed in. <g>

mxh

[marlene]

Found one job that I'm almost qualified for -- they want Mac experience, though, and I have very little of that -- but it's for producing junk mail. <g>

Would like to find something I wouldn't be embarrassed to tell people.

mxh

[terrie]

>>marlene: Yes, there's one agency that does handle temporary graphics/DTP jobs. That will probably be my first target.

Excellent! Do let me know what happens...

Terrie

[PeterArnel]

Peter,

LOL! I would move to the UK in a heartbeat, except I don't think my three dogs would be allowed in. <g>

mxh

My Border Terrier may not like that - It must be tough at the moment - I hate to say the obvious but you just have to try and create opportunities for your self - sometimes it means doing jobs for nothing and being nice to people that well mmmmmmmmm. BUT I always belive something always better turns up ( still waiting for the 30 year old blond but thats another story hahaha as my first wife who I am still married to would say) JUst keep focused on what u want to do , and be flexible , Experienced people are like gold dust even if its training the youngsters - take care
Peter
I know Anne is a FileMaker person - and if u can use it - its great for variable data - and if u know anyone with a Xerox - well thats the big message these days - personalisation

[ktinkel]

BUT I always belive something always better turns up (still waiting for the 30 year old blond but thats another story hahaha as my first wife who I am still married to would say)Erm, Peter, dear — can we get your wife to join us here? I would really (REALLY, REALLY) love to hear her take on all that!

Wonder what she’s waiting for! <g>

[mact]

Ms Fontessa,

You ain't alone with this problem. I'm down to about 3 customers for film output, and the large format in kjet isn't catching on as I'd hoped it would.

If it wasn't for the fact that I need the shop for my MG "collection" (2) I'd close down in a heartbeat and take up a new career flipping burgers or something.

One of these days I'm going to start a rant on small printers who buy a ctp device without knowing how to really use it and cause their custoemrs who don't use an "approved" software oceans of grief.

[ElyseC]

Hey! Howdy stranger! Glad you found us and so fresh after the move, too!

[mact]

go for it.

Mac OSX is so much nicer than "classic" mac os. It'll take you about an hour to find where things go and how stuff works. Max. (less than that if you use both hands).

I bought an emac 6 months ago and though there's not much work for it, i find it useful for email and stuff....and i can chuckle at the .scr, .pif, and other nasty attachments that come thru.<G>

[mact]

Blame Franca.

I thought I'd been dropped from her email list, but guess not<BG>

this format is "more nicer" than the kludgy AOLServe (or CompuOL) format.

[ElyseC]

I bought an emac 6 months ago and though there's not much work for it, i find it useful for email and stuff....and i can chuckle at the .scr, .pif, and other nasty attachments that come thru.<G>
Nice for that, too, indeed.

[ElyseC]

Blame Franca.

I thought I'd been dropped from her email list, but guess not<BG>

this format is "more nicer" than the kludgy AOLServe (or CompuOL) format.
Thanks. We think so, too!

[Franca]

I thought I'd been dropped from her email list, but guess not<BG>Not a chance, buddy! Just been poking my nose around in different places these days. There hasn't been much for me to do, Venturawise, lately. You can read about my first apparel job in the Zazzle threads in the Layout & Design section. ;-)

[mact]

apparel job?

I'm making transfers for Tees and Sweats (have sold a couple "certified Napa Valley Wino" long sleeve Tees<G>)

[Franca]

"certified Napa Valley Wino" long sleeve Tees<G>LOL! Did you keep one for yourself?

[marlene]

I'm not exactly sure what FileMaker does, but isn't it a Mac-only thing anyway (which would rule me out)?

I do have a possible new client (they do a lot of color publications), so I am waiting to see if that pans out before I do anything rash like update my resume.

my first wife who I am still married to

LOL!

mxh

[marlene]

I did some freelancing on Mac a few years ago (before OSX) and although I didn't have trouble doing my Quarking, FreeHanding and Photoshopping, I was mystified by Suitcase. Unless I knew the name of the Suitcase or Handbag or whatever the fonts were in, I couldn't find them.

The person whose Mac I was using had created Suitcases for individual clients and knew what fonts were in them, but I had no idea. If I needed Gill Sans, I had to ask her which client's luggage it was in. It was a PITA.

mxh

[marlene]

I think your client is very bad-mannered not to at least offer you the job they've created in-house.

Yup. Although I'm sure I would not have taken it.

mxh

[marlene]

Oh, hey, there you are! I somehow overlooked this branch of the thread until just now.

Sorry to hear business is slow. Maybe the large-format inkjet work will pick up. It seems to be very popular around here, one of the local service bureaus does a lot of it.

mxh

[Franca]

I used to use FileMaker for PC; I assume it still exists but haven't been looking for it. ;-) I'm really not much of a database person.

[DTP Guy]

It still exists, and has gone through quite a transformation in the way it works. Version number is now 7.

[annc]

I'm not exactly sure what FileMaker does, but isn't it a Mac-only thing anyway (which would rule me out)?FileMaker Pro is a relational database, and it's definitely cross-platform. It even has some features on the PC that aren't available on the Mac these days.

It's really easy to work with.

[annc]

Yup. Although I'm sure I would not have taken it.

mxhThat's beside the point. <g>

It's the principle of the thing.

[mact]

newspaper classified ad makeup?

Some might use Multi-Ad (which is a breeze once you get used to it...an hour, maybe). Others AI or Quark.

[donmcc]

I went through the same thing about 8 years ago, when two of my major customers (book publishers) merged. Most of one production team was laid off, and the survivors started sending all the freelance work to the ones that had been let go, squeezing me out.

I started working for a print shop, and then moved into teaching (DTP and web design), part time at first and eventually have made it a new career.

This might give you a few ideas relevant to your situation.

Don McCahill

[ktinkel]

Hiya, Don. It is great to see you here!

[skyline]

One thing that is DEFINITELY needed right now is competent InDesign trainers! Especially if the company is switching from Quark to InDesign (many are). You can almost name your own salary.

[marlene]

I'm not looking either -- I'm also not much of a database person. Whenever I've had to deal with a client's database -- such as converting it for a Quark document -- it's been a nuisance, usually because of client errors.

I'm not looking for (more) trouble! <g>

mxh

[marlene]

I don't even know what relational means!

mxh

[marlene]

None of the local newspapers are advertising any page layout jobs.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for one possible new client -- if that works out, I should be able to stay afloat, at least for a while.

If not, then I do need to start looking seriously for a job.

mxh

[marlene]

That's beside the point. <g>

It's the principle of the thing.

Too right! The more I think about it, the more incensed I become.

mxh

[marlene]

I started working for a print shop, and then moved into teaching (DTP and web design)

I don't think I'd be any good at teaching, but I do like the idea of working in a print shop that does in-house DTP. I'm temporarily putting the job hunt on the back burner (unless I stumble upon something that seems like a really good fit), while a potential new client makes up their mind.

mxh

[annc]

I don't even know what relational means!

mxha relational database is one where information is kept in separate 'tables' and re-used, instead of being retyped all the time.

For example, in a simple shopping database, you would store all your customers in a table, with their names and contact details. Each customer would have a customer number.

When a customer buys an item, the invoices table records what that customer bought, with the customer number being entered, and the contact details being collected from the customers table for display, using the customer number as the 'key' or link between the two. The line items of the invoice are recorded in a separate table, with the invoice number being the key.

[ElyseC]

Wow! Great to see your, er, typing again, Don! Welcome!

[marlene]

Oh. I wonder if the way QuickBooks works is like a relational database.

mxh

[donmcc]

If I remember it correctly, it is. There will be one table for AR or AP people, and you don't have to enter all the name, address, contact, etc info each time. Do it once, and then you can pay the bill (or send it) without duplicating all that info.

That is the value of a relational system. With a flat database, you only have an invoices file, and you have to fill all that information for each sale/bill. With a relational system, you just use a customer or supplier code or number that "relates" to the other table, and this links them, saving all that repetition of space and effort.

Don McCahill

[annc]

Oh. I wonder if the way QuickBooks works is like a relational database.I think all the accounting packages for PCs are relational databases. MYOB certainly is.